Abstract
It is proposed that light is at absolute rest, its apparent motion being the reflection of the motion of mass in time. The hypothesis resolves the paradox of the apparent wave/particle duality of light, accounts for its speed being invariant and a physical limit, and explains other peculiarities of its behavior.
Introduction
Light is regarded as in some ways wavelike, in some ways particle-like, invariant in speed, the limit of speed, and as having various strange non-local effects. Einstein's suggestion (1905) that light be accepted as both wavelike and particulate pending an intelligible resolution of the evidence has become an abiding commitment to paradox as quantum theory has expanded the range of the counter-intuitive, or irrational, to encompass much of physics. Nonetheless, the value of the fundamental scientific preference for simplicity of description, explanatory power, and logical coherence remain as desirable as ever. However much science is now accommodated to the paradoxical features of light, a theory that would preclude the need for concession is always to be preferred by scientific standards. The idea that light might be at absolute rest is no doubt a strange and unlikely remedy at first impression, but I hope to justify it here by an appeal to the explanatory power by which it may be judged superior to conventional theories.
A Heuristic Graphic
A simple spacetime diagram (figure 1) conforming to Special Relativity and the Lorentz transformations(1), and drawn according to the relativistic perspective of a single observer, provides a heuristic representation by which the present hypothesis may be most readily considered.
figure 1
The x-axis represents space, while its perpendicular, the t-axis, represents time - both according to observer A who is considered to be at rest and moving in time(2) along the t-axis. Vector B represents a body in motion relative to A.
A travels 5 sec(3), in time in the scope of the diagram while “at rest” in space. Body B, which as a matter of convenience is located initially at O, moves from the vicinity of A at a velocity, according to A, which takes it 4 ls in 5 sec. The coordinates of B (4,3) can be derived from the Lorentz transformations, or geometrically by means of the gradations in the diagram. By locating B at 3 seconds in time it is represented that the clock of B has moved 3 sec in the reference frame of A.
The spacetime interval given by s2 = t2 - x2 (with t proportional to c) is expressed here by
s2 = 52 - 42
s2 = 9
Thus s, the interval, is represented in the diagram as the proper time of body B.
A significant implication of the diagram is that there are actually two invariants involved in a relativistic relationship: the interval of the proper time of B, and in addition, the interval of the world-line of A. The latter is not commonly recognized as being identical to the interval of the world-line of a body being observed. But in the relationship shown in figure 1 between an observer and a body in relative motion (where t2 = s2 + x2), the spacetime interval of the observer is necessarily equivalent to any world-line in relative motion, as the latter would form the hypotenuse of the Euclidean triangle described by the observer’s measure of a body’s distance traveled in space and the time elapsed on the moving body’s clock.
It is important to note that both the Lorentz Transformations and the equation for the invariant interval indicate a Euclidean relationship between space and time, and between bodies in relative motion. Although the relationship between clocks in relative motion given by t' = (t2 -x2).5 is indeed parabolic, as is generally recognized, the fact that a hypotenuse relates to the sides of a Euclidean triangle by a parabolic function presupposes the right-angle. And as figure 1 shows, the temporal component of any body’s motion in spacetime (including the observer’s) is at a right-angle to the observer’s space axis. The parabolic relationship between different reference frames should therefore be understood as derivative of the Euclidean relationship.
The motion of light is especially noteworthy in terms of figure 1. It should first be kept in mind that whereas the motion of light is commonly expressed as (approximately) 300,000 km per second, to fully describe its observed motion relativistically is to report that it travels 1 ls in space relative to an observer’s spatial reference, and zero seconds in time relative to an observer’s temporal reference, as is given both by the Lorentz transformations and the spacetime interval. A world-line representing a ray of light in figure 1 would therefore have a spacetime interval of 5, but a proper time of zero, and would lie directly along the x-axis. (The spacetime interval in this case would be s2 = 52 - 52.)
Two preliminary conclusions can be mentioned:
The speed of light as a limit: If the world-lines of bodies in relative motion are taken as having the same interval but with varying spatial and temporal components according to their spacetime trajectories, the limiting spatial velocity will be the interval of a world-line along the space axis measured in terms of the same inverval along the time axis. A vector drawn along the x-axis in figure 1 to represent a ray of light would extend as far along the x-axis as time elapses for the observer in the course of the diagram.
The speed of light as invariant: Due to the invariance of the observer’s spacetime interval, each observer will measure light as traveling the same distance in space as time elapses in that observer's reference frame, and though the measure of the spatial distance traveled by a beam of light between events will vary between reference frames, the rate will always be agreed upon. We can infer from the observation of light that distance in time is the same as distance in space - that one second in time is the same distance, but in a perpendicular direction, as 300,000 km in space.
The Hypothesis
The fact that the motion of material bodies is relative, and limited, while the motion of light is invariant, and an absolute limit, suggests a fundamental distinction. If motion in time were to be regarded as a correlate of mass, if the clock of a material body is unable to stop entirely, and if in contrast light is massless, and its clock (if it could be said to have one) is invariably motionless, then light could be construed as actually not-moving in time. And if light doesn't move in time, it may be meaningless to say it moves at all.
The question is: If light is considered to be at absolute rest, if the apparent motion of light is actually the reflection of the motion of mass in time, however absurd the idea may seem at first, what paradoxes could be resolved, what potential exists for a more comprehensive understanding of other issues and phenomena? What if material bodies exist in spacetime, but photons are embedded in space? What would be the implications if light is at absolute rest, and if the motion of mass in time - perpendicular to space and yet always in space – is the basis of all motion, real and apparent?
If uniform motion in time is regarded as perpendicular to space, such motion would arguably have two aspects: To move perpendicular to the spatial dimensions (away from or toward any three-dimensional point) could be described as a concentric, wavelike motion relative to each point in space - because only a concentric radiation or concentration, in the spatial aspect of a four-dimensional motion in spacetime, could be considered perpendicular to a point in three dimensions at once. But since four-dimensional motion in the spacetime continuum would always remain in space as it moves across space, the motion would also involve a trajectory across definite spatial points. Therefore, a body moving in time could be described as continuously radiating from one point in space, and concentrating upon another.
If the photon is regarded as a spatial (a-temporal) object, an observer who regards herself as at rest relative to light, while moving across space in time, will experience direct interactions with photons as impacts with moving particles, and she will experience indirect interactions as manifestations of waves. The apparent wave/particle duality of light would reflect the observations and interactions of bodies moving in spacetime with other bodies embedded in space.
We might therefore describe motion in time as a motion literally across space, a continuous radiation from one point in space and a concentration upon another. The apparent motion of light would in this hypothesis be the reflection of an observer's motion in time and across space.(4)
Let’s consider what might be explained by this hypothesis that cannot be otherwise explained, or cannot be explained as well.
Implications
The most significant implication of the present hypothesis is that the definition of light as being a-temporal and at absolute rest permits the resolution of the wave/particle paradox, a problem that has long eluded satisfactory explanation. If a body that exists in time is said to be moving perpendicular to space and yet to occupy a definite position in space at each moment, wave/particle duality can be attributed to our experience of the interaction between mass and light under different conditions – the wavelike radiation from, or relative to, one point, and the point-like intersection with another.
Given the hypothesis that mass, by moving in time, moves across space in a manner that places it always in space while also moving perpendicular to the spatial dimensions, in order to account for the variable wavelike reflection we observe with light it seems necessary to posit a trajectory that fluctuates in a cyclic manner along the surface of the radiation. If light is embedded in the four-dimensional continuum, its spatial orientation in spacetime may vary according to the energy of its emission. Depending on a photon’s spatial orientation relative to a massive body, the latter may approach the former in a more-or-less spatial, more-or-less temporal orientation, resulting in a more-or-less contracted spatial separation, and therefore a greater or lesser frequency. The wavelength and frequency we associate with light might thus be attributed to the relative interval between cycles of the radial trajectory of mass. We might envision such a motion as a spiraling in which each “wavelength” represents a cyclic return to a particular three-dimensional trajectory, and we might attribute the apparent polarity of light to a reflection of the spiraling of mass across space along two dimensions of its wave-front. (Incidentally, this interpretation of wavelength suggests both an upper and lower limit, perhaps with Planck Length being the lower-limit, where spacetime orientation relative to a photon-space would approach the perpendicular.)
An obvious question raised by the hypothesis is how to characterize the relationships among material bodies as they move in time and across space. It seems most plausible and consistent with our experience that material bodies, if at rest relative to each other, would move in a more or less synchronous radiation along parallel trajectories, so that the spatial aspect of their motion in time would be imperceptible, and relative locations in space would remain constant. It may be significant that small variations in phase would be expected to produce wavelike phenomena like those predicted for material bodies by de Broglie (1924).
Another important aspect of light that has defied explanation is its peculiar non-local behavior. It’s been confirmed, in terms of the conventional paradigm, that a photon propagates in an expanding wave of probability that might be intercepted at any point on its wave-front, even if the wave-front is light-years in diameter. And Bell (1964) has demonstrated that a correlation between a pair of photons can be instantaneous and indifferent to distance. We could account for non-local phenomena in terms of the hypothesis by recognizing the motion of our analyzers and detectors as moving across space relative to the photons, and we could define locality at any moment in terms of the parallel radiations of the apparatus along their expanding wave-fronts. The otherwise incomprehensible simultaneities associated with light could thus be attributed to manifestations of motion in time perpendicular to space, where a point in space becomes an expanding sphere, and a contracting sphere becomes a point in space.
There is no basis in the present hypothesis for actual interference between or among photons and material bodies. (This is not especially controversial; Dirac has pointed out (1927) that “each photon only interferes with itself.”) If photons don’t actually move, and if material bodies radiate approximately in-phase, with only minor variations at the subatomic level, their apparent interference can be no more than a pattern, as on a screen, that we identify by analogy with interference found in material media. What is commonly called electromagnetic interference would be described instead as the manifestation of regularities in photon emission that makes intersection with masses moving along particular trajectories more or less likely. Similarly, light can be considered coherent when photon emission is precisely sequenced and oriented in space to be intercepted by masses along specific trajectories at regular wavelengths.
Several of the strange aspects of light can be mentioned here in association with the various adaptations of Young’s classic experiment with light (1807) using slits or pinholes in screens to produce perplexing manifestations of simultaneity, non-locality, and interference. As is well-known, photons have been found to behave differently when passing through an aperture in a screen depending on whether there is another aperture some distance away. In terms of the present hypothesis, a screen can be regarded as a plane of material bodies, each of which intercept, or not, a photon depending on the distances of each material body from the light source, and the spatial trajectory of each at the moment its wave-front intersects the location of the photon. The light that “passes through” an aperture in a screen would be specifically out of phase with all the trajectories of the masses of the screen as the latter radiate across the space between the screen and light source. (Note that the light source should be envisioned as a mass moving parallel with the screen while depositing a series of photons.) When an additional aperture is opened, the photons that avoid interception to “pass through” one or both apertures and impinge on the second screen consist of those that would have “passed” the original aperture, those that “pass” the second, and those in-phase to “pass” both - the latter including those in a phase that would “pass” the original if not first intercepted by the now missing masses of the second aperture. Given the different phase relationships determining which photons avoid interception by the masses of the first screen, there will be distinct phase relationships with the masses of a second screen, producing the apparent interference pattern found in Young’s and subsequent experiments.
Other phenomenal aspects of light, such as reflection, diffraction, and its apparent retardation in various media can be explained, if the hypothesis is confirmed, in terms of the dynamics of absorption and re-emission, and needn’t concern us here.
Conclusion
A relativistic spacetime diagram demonstrates that a two-dimensional projection of the four-dimensional continuum can illustrate the peculiar characteristics of light as the ultimate and invariant speed, and suggests that it is not meaningful to regard light as moving in either space or time. The hypothesis that light is at absolute rest, and that the apparent motion of light is the reflection of an observer's own motion in time, has been shown to resolve the wave/particle paradox and to make the apparent non-local behavior of light intelligible. Although experimentation and formalization is needed to confirm and better define what has been described as the radial trajectory of mass in time across space, the necessarily dual and exotic nature of four-dimensional motion has been shown to make apparent characteristics of light such as wavelength, coherence, polarity, interference, and simultaneity more comprehensible as manifestations of mass, rather than light.
End Notes
1. The Lorentz Transformations are t' = (t-v)/(1-v2).5 and x' = (x-vt)/(1-v2).5, with t as time, x as distance, and v as velocity proportional to c.
2. It is permissible to say a body “moves” in time because spacetime has been recognized as a continuum as a consequence of Special Relativity. Duration in one coordinate system is a composite of motion in space and time according to another.
3. As a matter of convenience t is generally multiplied by c so that space and time can be expressed in distances of the same scale. I prefer instead to calibrate them by giving time in seconds (sec) and space in light-seconds (ls).
4. In terms of the diagram in figure 1, if light is at absolute rest, a more accurate representation of light would be to treat a photon emitted at O as a point, thus representing the motion in spacetime of body A, i.e., A’s spacetime interval, as the source of the photon’s apparent motion of 1 ls per sec. To represent a photon encountered by A, we would place a photon on the t-axis at the time where the world-line of A intersects with it.
References
Bell J. (1964), “On the Einstein Podolsky Rosen paradox”, Physics 1 195-200.
de Broglie L. (1924), “Recherches sur la théorie des quanta,” Annales de Physique 3, 22-128, 1925, translated in Gunther L., Wave Mechanics, Pergamon, 1968.
Dirac P. (1927), "The quantum theory of the emission and absorption of radiation", Proc. Roy. Soc. London A 114, 243.
Einstein A. (1905), In "Über einen die Erzeugung und Verwandlung des Lichtes betreffenden heuristischen Gesichtspunkt" ("On a Heuristic Viewpoint Concerning the Production and Transformation of Light"), Annalen der Physik 17:132-148.
Einstein A., Podolsky B., Rosen N. (1935), “Can quantum-mechanical description of physical reality be considered complete?” Phys.Rev. 47:777-80.
Comments
Fred Bortz and the stuff
August 27, 2008 by Anonymous, 1 year 13 weeks ago
Comment: 31650
Do not listen to Fred Bortz and the stuff.
They do not understand science.
But they have the god -- mainstream.
If their books were creative then they would be rich.
They are not. But they want to sell their books.
Because the books follow the mainstream and the mainstream is considered to be the god of them, they try hard to suppress any new thoughts anywhere!
Awaiting your non-anonymous review
August 27, 2008 by Fred Bortz, 1 year 13 weeks ago
Comment: 31652
Anonymous,
Please take the time to discover my books, such as Astrobiology in the "Cool Science" series for middle grade readers, and Martian Fossils on Earth? The Story of Meteorite ALH84001, in which the title and every chapter heading are questions, before you accuse me of lacking creativity and not having an open mind.
You will find the same evidence of an open mind throughout Physics: Decade by Decade, and especially in the closing chapter.
After you have looked into my work, you will then be qualified to make comments. Bad reviews don't bother me as long as the reviewer has read my work. Uninformed, ad hominem attacks like yours, however, will not go without a response.
I put my name behind and stand by my work, and can cite evidence in doing so. Do you stand by the insults you are slinging behind the cloak of anonymity?
Fred Bortz -- Science and technology books for young readers (www.fredbortz.com) and Science book reviews (www.scienceshelf.com)
Lovely
August 27, 2008 by Anonymous, 1 year 13 weeks ago
Comment: 31647
I don't know about the rest of this stuff, way above my head.
But I do think Einstein was a buttnut.
Hyperspacial thinking like this makes me feel light-headed.
Onward, brave soldiers of thought.
Hmmmm
August 26, 2008 by Anonymous, 1 year 13 weeks ago
Comment: 31637
Lightspeed is not a constant. We know it travels faster or slower in different materials... That said I will go on to explain something bout light....
A wave without amplitude has no energy , zero frequency and infinite wavelength.
As we put energy into a photon, its wave must gain amplitude,( assume perhaps an invariable integral value ... it is zero when no energy is present in the photon, one when there is energy present)
Next a tiny thought experiment:
If we observe an unhappily sober wino walking down a sidewalk, and measure the time it takes him to walk that block, we would come up with a value 'Drunkspeed' or D.He would walk in a straight line. His wave would have zero energy , zero amplitude.
If we then offer him a drink, he may begin to sway slightly as he walks... going from one side of the sidewalk to the other once in the length of the block. Since he is going back and forth as he goes, and he arrives at the end of the block in the same time he did sober... we must admit he walked a little faster...
Give him a 40oz., and his staggering is so significant that he goes back and forth across the sidewalk hundreds of times before he reaches the corner. In order to make this journey within the same duration as D, he must be running...
So it goes with the photon... As we add energy the photons frequency rises. Since its amplitude cannot be zero, it actually travels a small transverse distance. As we observe that the photon still travels from A to B in the appropriate time we again must conclude that on tiny scales light is traveling faster than C. It is only because we ignore the amplitude of the wave, and simply measure how quickly it gets from A to B, that we erroneously assume it's speed is constant.
Phil C
Frames of reference
August 6, 2008 by Anonymous, 1 year 16 weeks ago
Comment: 31403
Frames of reference are relative in themselves, and completely detached. There are no umbilical chords tying them together. Mathematical calculations are only valid within the frame of reference. This explains the incorrect time assumptions in Einstein’s theory and also the Hiesenberg uncertainty principal. It is incorrect to calculate across differing frames of reference as if they were somehow the same and connected. This difference between reference frames are real both mathematically and physically.
One can explain this best by imagining yourself in a spaceship completely in a void without any other objects to reference. You can accelerate your spaceship for as long as you want, and as soon as you quit acceleration you are at rest and not in motion. It does not matter how long you accelerate, your motion, and kinetic energy is always zero. It is only when you introduce another frame of reference into the equation that your calculations become skewed. If there are now two spaceships and they both accelerate in different directions or at different rates, they develop kinetic energy, relative to each other. Calculations as to the varying speed of light between the frames becomes skewed.
I've thought of some of these things before too...
March 26, 2008 by Anonymous, 1 year 35 weeks ago
Comment: 28353
I just started a blog & posted something that I've been thinking about for a while. I emailed a physics forum and got an answer from a guy a while back, but it wasn't as in depth as this discussion was...http://particulapensee.blogspot.com/2008/03/immovable-light.html
Actually the articles are here...
January 8, 2009 by Anonymous, 46 weeks 4 days ago
Comment: 33675
http://www.jcatom.newsvine.com
Re7: Perplexity in four dimensions
December 18, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 49 weeks ago
Comment: 26516
Burt wrote: "...you effectively ensure that you'll become an island in the wilderness of science. I hope you enjoy the solitude!"
If that were true, if giving standard terms new interpretations were to invoke universal, righteous indignation, science would indeed be a wilderness.
Re6: Perplexity in four dimensions
December 18, 2007 by Burt, 1 year 49 weeks ago
Comment: 26513
Jim,
by making statements like:
"... If I believe the standard interpretation is an obfuscation, I don’t have to invent another term to give it a physical interpretation. Nobody owns it.",
you effectively ensure that you'll become an island in the wilderness of science. I hope you enjoy the solitude!
No further questions...
Cheers, Burt
Re5: Perplexity in four dimensions
December 18, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 49 weeks ago
Comment: 26512
Burt wrote: “Jim, perhaps my final piece of technical advice to you: do not use standard terms and then attach a non-standard definition to them, e.g., the spacetime interval. The spacetime interval is defined in terms of the geometric difference between a time interval and a space interval between two events. It is not the wordline length of bodies or even the propertime of clocks, except in special cases, when the space interval happens to be zero. I think this practice of yours has a lot to do with the fact that people cannot successfully communicate with you on your ideas. If you have to coin a new technical term to describe something, then define it very carefully and make sure the term does not already have a generally accepted definition.â€
Burt, it’s really quite simple. Look at my figure 1 and my commentary about it again. I’ve shown that the spacetime interval by the standard mathematical definition (not its standard interpretation) is the proper time of B, the body being observed. If you somehow disagree with that, at least you will see that I referenced the fact and my interpretation. I’ve explicitly disagreed with the standard interpretation, and I’ve shown a graphic representation of my interpretation that is entirely consistent with the mathematics. If body B is at rest relative to A its spacetime interval would be equal to the motion of A in time. If body B is traveling at c, its spacetime interval is 0. All of this is according to the standard formula (s2 = t2 - x2).
The standard interpretation of the spacetime interval has no physical meaning. It’s interpreted as an invariant relationship that’s just a fact of nature, it just is. If I believe the standard interpretation is an obfuscation, I don’t have to invent another term to give it a physical interpretation. Nobody owns it.
What you really seem to be saying is that I can’t disagree with standard interpretations unless I agree with standard interpretations. That opinion itself is unfortunately a fairly standard interpretation. And I disagree.
Re: Hypothesis on the nature of light
December 12, 2007 by Anonymous, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26422
Hi Jim, Burt here. :-)
It's an interesting hypothesis, but I have some serious questions:
You wrote: "A relativistic spacetime diagram demonstrates that a two-dimensional projection of the four-dimensional continuum can illustrate the peculiar characteristics of light as the ultimate and invariant speed, and suggests that it is not meaningful to regard light as moving in either space or time."
First question: with this premise, how do you explain the fact that if we and an astronaut on the moon send a light signal to each other more or less simultaneously, the two light signals move in both directions. If light was not moving, we had to rush to the moon in about 1.25 seconds!
Second question: what tests are you proposing to enable a validation of your premise, i.e., where results will differ from standard relativity theory?
Burt
Re: Burt's questions
December 12, 2007 by Fred Bortz, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26424
When you answer Burt's first question, please tell us what is the frame of reference in which light is at absolute rest. (I asked his question #1 above and then sarcastically said to spare us from your answer. I guess Burt doesn't want to be spared, so help him out with a clear description of the frame of reference in which both light beams are at absolute rest.)
When you answer the second question, also describe where results would differ from quantum mechanics. It seems the motivation of this article was the wave-particle duality, which you insist is a paradox and I insist is not a paradox when viewed through quantum theory.
I expect that you'll have a more productive discussion with Burt, so I'll go back to the sidelines.
Fred Bortz -- Science and technology books for young readers (www.fredbortz.com) and Science book reviews (www.scienceshelf.com)
Re: Questions on a hypothesis on light
December 13, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26440
Hello Burt
Thank you for the pertinent questions.
Your asked: “How do you explain the fact that if we and an astronaut on the moon send a light signal to each other more or less simultaneously, the two light signals move in both directions. If light was not moving, we had to rush to the moon in about 1.25 seconds!â€
If you think in terms of two signallers each “depositing†a (stationary) photon in space as they move more or less parallel to each other in spacetime, they each radiate, relative to their photon-deposits, from the location of their photon-deposits, and after approx. 1.25 seconds the wave-front of each radiation intersects the location of each other’s photons. Naturally, in this scenario, the signals would need to be directional between the earth and moon, which means the signallers would, in effect, design to emit the photons so as to most likely be intersected by masses along a specific trajectory, by “focusing the the signal.†(Recall my description of the motion of mass in spacetime as a “radial trajectory.â€) So while you don’t “rush to the moon†in this description, as you move in time and across space, you would actually rush to the photon deposited by the signaler on the moon.
Your second question: “what tests are you proposing to enable a validation of your premise, i.e., where results will differ from standard relativity theory?â€
I mentioned in the article that the hypothesis suggests an upper and lower limit to wavelengths. I’m not prepared to say what those would be as yet, but I suspect the lower limit may be the Planck Length. Whatever the lower limit, the theoretical upper limit could be derived from the lower and tested for. I’m not an experimentalist, and I don’t have access to sophisticated apparatus, but I believe various experimentation could be designed to test the assumption that mass, not light, is moving, to determine the nature of “radial trajectoryâ€, confirm the hypothesis, and lead to new insights from the new perspective.
In any case, hypotheses don’t always (seldom?) “disprove†established theories. When Copernicus proposed his heliocentric cosmology it didn’t so much disprove the predictions of Ptolemaic astronomy as provide less improvisational descriptions. Defenders of Ptolemy no doubt objected that the Ptolemaic system had stood for centuries, that its system of deferents and epicycles explained the motion of the heavens just fine, and who was this Copernicus to challenge Ptolemy anyway. Conclusive disproof of the Ptolemaic system only came from exploration of the implications of the alternative.
The hypothesis that light is at absolute rest (that it can’t be said to “move†from any frame of reference) and that electromagnetic phenomena are the reflection of the motion of mass in spacetime obviates the need to describe light as both wave-like and particle-like, the need to posit non-local effects, simultaneities. It resolves explanations what were considered absurd or implausible at first, and which only became “reasonable†and conventional over time.
Why the Copernican system displaced the Ptolemaic
December 13, 2007 by Fred Bortz, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26448
Jim,
Instead of providing a test to distinguish your proposal from well-established physics, you argue that you don't have to by using this analogy:
"When Copernicus proposed his heliocentric cosmology it didn’t so much disprove the predictions of Ptolemaic astronomy as provide less improvisational descriptions."
Initially, the Copernican system was favored by its proponents because a larger body of planetary measurements were requiring more and more adjustments to the Ptolemaic orbits and their epicycles on epicycles. In other words, the previously established theory was becoming cumbersome as new measurements arose.
Ultimately, the Copernican system prevailed when Galileo provided observational proof of bodies that did not follow geocentric orbits, namely the moons of Jupiter.
Unlike the Ptolemaic model, relativity and quantum mechanics are thriving as more data become available, so the comparison you make to Copernicus vs. Ptolemy is not valid.
Thus the question stands: What tests or measurements do you propose to persuade people to abandon the established and successful physics of Relativity and Quantum Mechanics and to accept your formulation as an alternative?
Fred Bortz -- Science and technology books for young readers (www.fredbortz.com) and Science book reviews (www.scienceshelf.com)
Re: Why the Copernican system displaced the Ptolemaic
December 14, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26454
Fred wrote:
“Initially, the Copernican system was favored by its proponents because a larger body of planetary measurements were requiring more and more adjustments to the Ptolemaic orbits and their epicycles on epicycles. In other words, the previously established theory was becoming cumbersome as new measurements arose…. Ultimately, the Copernican system prevailed when Galileo provided observational proof of bodies that did not follow geocentric orbits, namely the moons of Jupiter.â€
Copernicus published his system in 1543, without either a disproof of Ptolemy or proofs, or tests, of his alternative. In some ways Copernicus’ system was even more cumbersome than Ptolemy’s (more “epicycles†than the former system of “equant circlesâ€). Galileo didn’t discovered moons orbiting Jupiter until 1610, and Copernicus remained controversial for another hundred years or so.
Although you seem to have an idealized view of how science progresses, I assume you’re familiar with Kuhn’s Structure of Scientific Revolutions. He documented how paradigms aren’t abandoned because they’re perceived as becoming cumbersome. Inaccuracies, complications are considered problems remaining to be solved. The Ptolemaic system in Copernicus’ time was considered successful and thriving, with (it was believed) just a few more adjustments to make it perfect. Not so dissimilarly, Quantum Theory hasn’t solved all its problems, and you wouldn’t find much argument with the characterization of the efforts to achieve a Unified Field Theory as “cumbersome.†In any case, no scientist should ever place an established theory beyond question.
You keep insisting that I offer competing evidence, or disproofs. My hypothesis is a reinterpretation of the evidence. It circumvents the need to posit your non-paradoxical paradoxes, simultaneities, and non-local effects. If the hypothesis is sound, if it offers a way around some of the strangeness of quantum physics, that’s reason enough to embrace it. If sound, if accepted, the confirmations and discoveries will follow. The issue that some will always find difficult to focus upon is whether a challenging hypothesis is intrinsically sound, with better economy of explanation. You and I don’t ever seem to get that far.
Exiting the discussion
December 14, 2007 by Fred Bortz, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26458
Jim, once again, we have reached a point where our discussion is getting circular.
The reason I insist on evidence or a proposed experimental or observational test is this:
Like most physical scientists, I find the standard descriptions of both relativity and quantum mechanics to be straightforward, even when they seemed counterintuitive at first. Once I re-tuned my intuitions based on a different world view founded on observational evidence (no absolute frame of reference; a wave-particle duality of both matter and energy rather an either-or view of waves and particles), things that once seemed counter-intuitive to me are no longer so.
That point of view is fully developed as the main narrative theme in my recently published history of physics in the 20th century.
That new viewpoint has proven remarkably successful in understanding the world. The quantum mechanics of solids provides the underpinnings of most of the electronics industry. Superconductivity and tunneling (which is the premier example of applying the wave-particle duality) are quantum mechanical effects that are technologically important. When the full mechanism behind high-temperature superconductivity is finally resolved (progress is slow but ongoing in that regard), it will lead to even more remarkable devices.
With all these successes of quantum mechanics, you are still asking me to abandon the view that nature has a wave-particle duality. Yet you do not offer any benefit to your alternative, pre-quantum point of view, other than to say that you see a paradox there.
So as long as I insist on evidence and you say that evidence is unnecessary, we are at our original impasse about the non-paradox that challenges your immovable wave-or-particle intuition.
It's time for me to get off the new merry-go-round we find ourselves on. I once posted that I was not going to get into these discussions again. It's time to take my own advice.
Fred Bortz -- Science and technology books for young readers (www.fredbortz.com) and Science book reviews (www.scienceshelf.com)
P.S.: I am editing my comment to add this because of a new post on your earlier thread from David Halliday. His points there apply here as well.
Re: What's Metaphysical?
December 14, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26457
Burt wrote: “Your opening statement in the reply is correct until you stated: ‘motion perpendicular to a point in space would be a radial trajectory.’
This may not be metaphysical, but it's utterly undefined. Motion cannot be perpendicular to a point... What's metaphysical is that your two observers (signalers) apparently reach each other's spatial locations (separated by 1.25 ls) in a time of 1.25 seconds flat!â€
You can’t fairly consider a hypothesis about four dimensions from a three-dimensional convention. It’s like a flat-worlder saying it’s ridiculous to claim that if someone were to travel east long enough they’d end up in the same place.
A 4-D perpendicular to a point in 3-space would be a radiation.
If motion in time is motion across space at 300,000km/sec, two observers separated by 1.25 ls will intersect each other’s initial position in space in 1.25 seconds.
You’ve criticized my conclusions without addressing the chain of reasoning.
“I'm afraid you are grossly abusing "Bell's inequalities" here, if that is what you are referring to…. Have you thought about a signaler that radiates photons isotropically in every direction. How would these photons reach the distant stars?â€
I apologize for the vague reference. I was referring to the principle that a photon can appear (impinge on a body) anywhere on its wave-front, even if it’s light-years in diameter. That’s how photons reach the distant stars in the conventional understanding, that’s how massive bodies propagate, in three-dimensional terms, in my hypothesis. The one is no more metaphysical than the other.
Re: What's Metaphysical?
December 14, 2007 by Burt, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26461
Jim wrote: "A 4-D perpendicular to a point in 3-space would be a radiation."
Unless you can define what you mean here, other than saying "would be a radiation" (which is meaningless as I see it), it's pointless to discuss this issue. Give us a few 4-d equations to ponder!
You also wrote: "If motion in time is motion across space at 300,000km/sec, ..."
Same story: show us mathematically how this is possible, i.e., "motion in time is motion in space..." If the mathematics is a bit tough for everybody, a good point to start is with your 'Epstein' diagram, as I requested (unsuccessfully, it seems) last time.
Give us some good reason to want to continue with this discussion!
Burt
Hmm..
December 16, 2007 by Anonymous, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26482
It's not unreasonable to think that light is stationary when the entire mechanics of energy suggests that there's an absolute limit to the amount of energy contained in the universe. If light were actually moving, it would be expending that energy.
On that same note, guess what? Light is what matter turns into when reaching a certain velocity as understood by Einstein's work. On top of that, basic experimental evidence in concepts such as 'time dilation' suggests that matter slows down in all other reference frames but its own. So, it's not "metaphysical" to think that light is simply the state of matter when it reaches -- guess what? -- the speed of light! Since the speed of light is constant, something about it must have an absolute value. If not the reference frame itself, then it becomes part of the reference frames of EVERYTHING ELSE.
Material velocity becomes pure energy when put as twice the speed of light. Duh? Besides that, isn't it nice to know that there is a limited (precise) amount of energy in our universe since energy can neither be created or destroyed, so when energy is being exerted in matter to move it through time, obviously there must be some 'lag' since the energy of light will have to be used to move a material frame of reference through time to 'catch up' with the light's location and must face a delay from reaching a new point in spacetime (the 1.25 delay as mentioned by Jim).
Geeze, this concept isn't that hard to understand for well-educated physicists is it? It's arguing a moot point. He's not refuting sound scientific theory here (God forbid if he did!), but simply trying to give another viewpoint on a stagnant way of envisioning the nature of light. We don't even know why particles attract one another, so a new viewpoint on the field of quantum mechanics is nothing to refute. Instead, why don't you guys try to embrace what he's saying here. It's obvious he's not quite worked out his theory through experimentation, otherwise he wouldn't be posting this on the internet as a hypothesis, would he? He's simply trying to get constructive feedback rather than having his hypothesis shot down. Science is the search for truth, so what the hell are well-educated scientists doing blasting down new viewpoints in that search for truth without considering that something must've compelled him in his own search for truth to write this article in the first place.
It's not very 'scientific' to just shut out new ideas based on the pretense that he might not have his ideas worked out all the way. Why not help him instead? He's too busy defending the integrity of his ideas from you rather than having the chance to explain what it is you're really unsure about.
Nobody has asked him a single question stemmed from genuine interest in his concepts. The question asked thus far are all an attempt to shoot down his ideas! What kind of questions are those?! That's not science or reason! That's prejudice to new ideas! You can stick your version of 'scientific theory' up your ass until you can learn to ask a real question. Ask a question with genuine interest in finding an answer that's harmonious to everyone, rather than one that just suits your ego and your 'well-established' book smarts. I wouldn't answer your stuck up questions either, even if this wasn't a [[hypothesis]] to begin with!
Well Burt, based on the reasoning given here there's only good reason to continue with this discussion with a good question, and so far, even with your somewhat more focused questions, you still seem to not be looking for a real answer. Mathematics is not reason. How about asking for some logical explanation for the foundation in his hypothesis regarding his reasoning for it, rather than mathematics which it is clear he hasn't gotten so far in that area. In that respect, there is much I am left wanting on both ends, including Jim. What is the reasoning behind his idea and what is our reason for not accepting his reasoning? That's the best question at this point.
Oh, and dude with the goofy looking bow tie, you're not that great just because you wrote a book. Your humor sucks. Also what kindergarten did you come from making fun of people's subject lines? "Paradox Schmaradox"? Talk about lack of creativity. ;P
So, yeah. Jim? What's your reason for believing light is stationary? Do you believe IT moves in its own reference frame or does the world around it move toward its own reference frame? Does it have some relation to the way I described energy before or is there a new way of movement you've decided on? Also, are the reference frames of the two people (using your astronaut example) somehow interconnected to the way the light seems to move in both directions at once? If so, how do you describe the way it moves from one point to another even if it's moved in both directions with this idea?
- Amos
Hmm..
December 15, 2007 by Anonymous, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26478
It's not unreasonable to think that light is stationary when the entire mechanics of energy suggests that there's an absolute limit to the amount of energy contained in the universe. If light were actually moving, it would be expending that energy.
On that same note, guess what? Light is what matter turns into when reaching a certain velocity as understood by Einstein's work. On top of that, basic experimental evidence in concepts such as 'time dilation' suggests that matter slows down in all other reference frames but its own. So, it's not "metaphysical" to think that light is simply the state of matter when it reaches -- guess what? -- the speed of light! Since the speed of light is constant, something about it must have an absolute value. If not the reference frame itself, then it becomes part of the reference frames of EVERYTHING ELSE.
Material velocity becomes pure energy when put as twice the speed of light. Duh? Besides that, isn't it nice to know that there is a limited (precise) amount of energy in our universe since energy can neither be created or destroyed, so when energy is being exerted in matter to move it through time, obviously there must be some 'lag' since the energy of light will have to be used to move a material frame of reference through time to 'catch up' with the light's location and must face a delay from reaching a new point in spacetime (the 1.25 delay as mentioned by Jim).
Geeze, this concept isn't that hard to understand for well-educated physicists is it? It's arguing a moot point. He's not refuting sound scientific theory here (God forbid if he did!), but simply trying to give another viewpoint on a stagnant way of envisioning the nature of light. We don't even know why particles attract one another, so a new viewpoint on the field of quantum mechanics is nothing to refute. Instead, why don't you guys try to embrace what he's saying here. It's obvious he's not quite worked out his theory through experimentation, otherwise he wouldn't be posting this on the internet as a hypothesis, would he? He's simply trying to get constructive feedback rather than having his hypothesis shot down. Science is the search for truth, so what the hell are well-educated scientists doing blasting down new viewpoints in that search for truth without considering that something must've compelled him in his own search for truth to write this article in the first place.
It's not very 'scientific' to just shut out new ideas based on the pretense that he might not have his ideas worked out all the way. Why not help him instead? He's too busy defending the integrity of his ideas from you rather than having the chance to explain what it is you're really unsure about.
Nobody has asked him a single question stemmed from genuine interest in his concepts. The question asked thus far are all an attempt to shoot down his ideas! What kind of questions are those?! That's not science or reason! That's prejudice to new ideas! You can stick your version of 'scientific theory' up your ass until you can learn to ask a real question. Ask a question with genuine interest in finding an answer that's harmonious to everyone, rather than one that just suits your ego and your 'well-established' book smarts. I wouldn't answer your stuck up questions either, even if this wasn't a hypothesis to begin with!
Well Burt, based on the reasoning given here there's only good reason to continue with this discussion with a good question, and so far, even with your somewhat more focused questions, you still seem to not be looking for a real answer. Mathematics is not reason. How about asking for some logical explanation for the foundation in his hypothesis regarding his reasoning for it, rather than mathematics which it is clear he hasn't gotten so far in that area. In that respect, there is much I am left wanting on both ends, including Jim. What is the reasoning behind his idea and what is our reason for not accepting his reasoning? That's the best question at this point.
Oh, and dude with the goofy looking bow tie, you're not that great just because you wrote a book. Your humor sucks. Also what kindergarten did you come from making fun of people's subject lines? "Paradox Schmaradox"? Talk about lack of creativity. ;P
So, yeah. Jim? What's your reason for believing light is stationary? Do you believe IT moves in its own reference frame or does the world around it move toward its own reference frame? Does it have some relation to the way I described energy before or is there a new way of movement you've decided on? Also, are the reference frames of the two people (using your astronaut example) somehow interconnected to the way the light seems to move in both directions at once? If so, how do you describe the way it moves from one point to another even if it's moved in both directions with this idea?
- Amos
RE: Exiting the discussion (again)
December 15, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26470
Fred wrote “With all these successes of quantum mechanics, you are still asking me to abandon the view that nature has a wave-particle duality. Yet you do not offer any benefit to your alternative, pre-quantum point of view, other than to say that you see a paradox there.â€
I don’t object to the successes of quantum mechanics. It’s those aspects to which you’ve “re-tuned [your] intuitions†that I’m saying can be de-tuned. Aside from the benefit of providing an understanding that doesn’t require, for instance, an esoteric, counter-intuitive intuition that something can have mutually exclusive attributes, I’ve offered explanations of phenomena that have been accepted as inexplicable in the conventional view. Have you seen an explanation of Young’s double-slit experiment that doesn’t reduce to the “that’s just the way it is†(non)explanation? Explanation is a benefit, to be weighed against the dread of revision. Everyone has his own scale.
“So as long as I insist on evidence and you say that evidence is unnecessary, we are at our original impasse about the non-paradox that challenges your immovable wave-or-particle intuition.â€
Counter-evidence is unnecessary when evidence is accepted. Reinterpretation, with or without counter-evidence, is a benefit when it provides a more comprehensive explanation. But sometimes the perceived risk out-weighs the benefit.
Shedding light with a bite
December 15, 2007 by Gadfly, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26473
Jim writes:
"I’ve offered explanations of phenomena that have been accepted as inexplicable in the conventional view."
But they are explicable by quantum mechanics, which is now the conventional view. The explanation can be summarized thus: Waves and particles are limiting cases of the quantum mechanical wave-particle duality. That explains both Young's experiment and the photoelectric effect.
Then he adds:
"Counter-evidence is unnecessary when evidence is accepted."
So why doesn't he accept the evidence that waves and particles are limiting cases of the quantum mechanical wave-particle duality?
The only reason they remain inexplicable to Jim is that he refuses to accept the evidence.
Fred was wise to exit this circular discussion, and now I shall follow.
Unlike Fred, whose exit from jarnold's blog is apparently permanent, I may be back with brief bites at future jarnold posts on other topics if warranted.
These bites of realism brought to you by "Gadfly."
RE: What's Metaphysical?
December 15, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26471
Burt, I think a primary reliance on equations has been part of the problem. Mathematics can be suggestive, mathematics can confirm, but it’s no substitute for conceptualization. The equations of the Lorentz transformations indicate a perpendicular relationship between time and space. So what would be a perpendicular to space? I’m suggesting an application of “perpendicular†meaning “to move directly away from or towardâ€, and I’m suggesting that a most appropriate definition of “motion perpendicular to space†would be motion directly away from or toward a point in space (because a perpendicular to a line or a plane would not be perpendicular to all three dimensions), which would be, in three-dimensional terms, a spherical wave-front. A more accurate description would be a 3-spherical wave-front, but I’ve used the simple spatial imagery of a sphere because it seems accurate enough as a description of the phenomena and it can be visualized in our three-dimensional custom of thought.
You asked me to show mathematically how it’s possible that motion in time is motion across space at 300,000km/sec. I already did. I showed that the “invariant interval†is equal to the proper time of an observed body. I showed that the spacetime interval of an observer is equal to that of every other body, regardless of its relative motion (t2 = s2 + x2). I’ve shown that given that the invariant interval of light is zero (s2 = t2 - x2), light “moves†along the x-axis relative to an observer as the observer moves along the t-axis in my figure 1, and therefore, the spacetime interval of light in space is equal to the spacetime interval of an observer in time; therefore, spacetime being a continuum, one second of time is equal to 300,000 km in space.
RE: RE: What's Metaphysical?
December 16, 2007 by Burt, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26481
Jim wrote: "I’m suggesting an application of “perpendicular†meaning “to move directly away from or towardâ€, and I’m suggesting that a most appropriate definition of “motion perpendicular to space†would be motion directly away from or toward a point in space... "
OK, perhaps you are meaning the time dimension of 4-space, which is a valid concept. Only problem is that it does not indicate 'motion in space'. Or, perhaps you are referring to a 4-vector in spacetime, which can indicate movement in space (and time). Neither of them is "perpendicular to a point" though, nor is a 4-vector a "3-spherical wave-front". So I'm still perplexed as to what you are referring to.
Jim wrote: "You asked me to show mathematically how it’s possible that motion in time is motion across space at 300,000km/sec. I already did."
No, what you've written before and now didn't show that. Perhaps you meant to say that the 4-vector in spacetime can be viewed as if everything, light included, always move 300,000 km/s across spacetime (not across space!). This is part of the premise of the Epstein diagram that you are using. Note that I said "can be viewed as...", because there is no such physical reality, it is just a convention of that diagram.
You concluded with: "... therefore, spacetime being a continuum, one second of time is equal to 300,000 km in space."
Yea, if you multiply time by c, this is true, but it does nothing for your main hypothesis. I still challenge you to draw us an Epstein diagram and show how/when/where a number of distant observers in different directions will observe a spherical light signal (many photons). It's easy to do, but not without violating your hypothesis, I reckon!
Burt
Perplexity in four dimensions
December 17, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 49 weeks ago
Comment: 26498
Burt,
Some of your objections to my hypothesis seem to be that my description of the motion of mass in time doesn’t conform to current interpretations of spacetime. That’s not necessarily grounds for rejection, of course, so long as the hypothesis conforms to the evidence. Whether it should be considered worthy of exploration and development depends on its explanatory power.
Any description of four-dimensional motion is going to be perplexing. I’ve described motion in time as perpendicular to space, as is indicated by the Lorentz transformations. You may object to that, but it’s not invalid on its face just because it’s unconventional. To move away from three dimensions at once would be to move away from a point in space in all three dimensions – a spherical wave-front. To move toward a point in space in all three dimensions would be a three-dimensional concentration - a collapsing spherical wave-front. We could have a constructive discussion on how best to describe such motion, but its validity rests on whether it conforms to the phenomena, and its value rests on its power of explanation - not on its conformance to conventional interpretations.
I’m not familiar with Epstein. A Google search turned up a Lewis Epstein and his book Relativity Visualized. Is that who and what you’re referring to? I can probably get my hands on it in a day or two.
You wrote: “Perhaps you meant to say that the 4-vector in spacetime can be viewed as if everything, light included, always move 300,000 km/s across spacetime (not across space!).â€
I’m saying that mass, not light, moves in-time across-space - i.e., in and across spacetime. The difficulty in conceptualizing motion in time (whether or not on the premise that it’s motion perpendicular to space) is that it’s not three-dimensional. The preposition “across†seems best to convey the concept of moving perpendicular while always remaining in space. You may find that perplexing and objectionable. It's perplexing to me, but any consideration of four dimensions would have to be perplexing. Does it conform to the evidence? Yes, and it actually explains the perplexing features of light that remain inexplicable otherwise. Wave/particle duality (where the difference between the two is acknowledged, not dis-appeared), non-locality, etc.
You wrote, in response to my conclusion that one second of time is equal to 300,000 km in space: “Yea, if you multiply time by c, this is true, but it does nothing for your main hypothesis.â€
There’s no need to multiply time by c, given the equality of spacetime intervals expressed in (t2 = s2 + x2).
“I still challenge you to draw us an Epstein diagram and show how/when/where a number of distant observers in different directions will observe a spherical light signal (many photons).“
I’ll look for Epstein, but I suspect that any static two-dimensional diagram is going to be inadequate to showing four-dimensional motion in two dimensions relative to several observers. A simple description of an imaginary scene will probably work better. Imagine a room with a lamp in the center and a number of observers sitting against the walls. In the conventional way of describing the situation, photons are emitted by the lamp, each of which may impinge on the retina of any one of the observers, anywhere on the wave-front of the photon.
If however light doesn’t move, if the motion of light is actually the reflection of motion of mass in time, the situation is described thusly:
• The room, the lamp, and the observers all move parallel in-time across-space, each simultaneously radiating from their locations in space and concentrating on others.
• Because motion in time is always in space, a wave-front has a radial trajectory in space, meaning that the mass occupies successive points along the expanding wave-front - and based on the evidence of how mass interacts with light, the points are on a different trajectory on the wave-front relative to earlier points.
• As each photon is emitted by the lamp (“deposited†in space), the wave-fronts of each massive body in the room expand toward it. If all masses are equidistant from the lamp, all their wave-fronts will intersect the location of the photon at the same time. Which one of the masses intercepts the photon depends on the trajectories of the wave-fronts at that moment - all the masses being at rest relative to each other, their trajectories are parallel, and their positions along their wave-fronts at the moment of intersection with the photon is determined by their relative position in the room.
Perplexing? Yes. It’s four-dimensional.
Re2: Perplexity in four dimensions
December 17, 2007 by Burt, 1 year 49 weeks ago
Comment: 26504
Hi Jim, you wrote: "Perplexing? Yes. It’s four-dimensional."
Four-dimensional scenarios are not really that perplexing - just try and unravel the 10,11 or 26 dimensions of string theory!
Anyway, now that I understand your idea better (through your imaginary scene of the lamp and observers in the room) it reminded me of the Wheeler-Feynman absorber theory of the 1940s. You may want to read this 1980 article by John Cramer: http://www.npl.washington.edu/npl/int_rep/gat_80/
The only difference is that they have light (any EM radiation) as two waves moving simultaneously in opposite directions, one towards the future absorber (the retarded wave) and one from the future absorber back to the emitter (the advanced wave, moving backwards in time). So in a way, your 'static photon' theory is similar, if you consider the velocity vectors of the two waves to cancel, leaving photons 'static' on average.
It may be that just like you apparently rediscovered the 1983 Epstein diagram (which has its problems), you have also rediscovered the 1945 Absorber Theory (in disguise). Take note that even Wheeler agreed that the theory carries a lot of "metaphysical baggage", basically because of the myriads of photons being emitted at every moment and the problem that every potential absorber in the universe must respond with an 'advanced wave' to every photon...
Nevertheless, absorber theory is still being used today to explain certain phenomena in simple terms. If what I said is correct, then you haven't done badly at all, although none of the discoveries were actually original.
Regards, Burt
Re3: Perplexity in four dimensions
December 18, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 49 weeks ago
Comment: 26509
Burt,
You’ve provided conventional interpretations to counter mine, apparently intended as corrections.
“In conventional SI units, which is preferable for non-physicists, time is expressed in seconds and distance in meters. Hence time has to be multiplied by c to convert it to meters.â€
My point was that the spacetime interval of one second is equal to the spacetime interval of 300,000 km, as is shown in my figure 1. I’m saying that one second is 300,000 km across space. But of course you prefer a conventional interpretation, where “there is no spacetime interval involved if you only have the values x and t, as you stated.†The mathematics and the graphic representation of the math (again, in figure 1) are perfectly compatible with an interpretation that there is a spacetime interval for the observer (on the t-axis) and for light (on the x-axis). And most importantly, my interpretation on that is part of a chain of interpretations that lead to several explanations of the otherwise unexplained behavior of light. The conventional interpretation, on the other hand, simply excludes the mathematical limits (the x and t axes) from the definition of the interval, despite the mathematical coherence of including them.
Another convention you provide as a “correctionâ€: “BTW, the correct SI equation for the spacetime interval is: dS^2 = (cdt)^2-dX^2 for timelike intervals and dS^2 = dX^2-(cdt)^2 for spacelike intervals, where the "d" means differential and dX^2 = dx^2+dy^2+dz^2, as applicable. Then, as you know, there is the lightlike interval where dS = 0.â€
I’ve shown in figure 1 that there are actually two invariant spacetime intervals in a relativistic relationship – that of the world-lines of the bodies being considered (expressed as t2 = s2 + x2), and that of the proper time of the body being observed (s2 = t2 - x2). These are simpler than the conventional expressions, and they represent real-world relationships.
In your follow-up post you wrote: “It may be that just like you apparently rediscovered the 1983 Epstein diagram (which has its problems), you have also rediscovered the 1945 Absorber Theory (in disguise).â€
I think it was Schopenhauer who said hypotheses tend to pass through three stages, from ridicule to serious opposition to the claim that they’re acceptable but problematic and nothing new. I hope you won’t begrudge my smile here.
The Absorber Theory doesn’t explain the things I’ve (claimed to be) explained by my hypothesis. Any similarities to my hypothesis are incidental. As for Epstein, does he take his diagram anywhere beyond a pedagogical illustration of an aspect of relativity theory?
Does treating the motion of light as the reflection of the actual motion of mass in time have explanatory power, more than the conventional, common-sense description? That’s really the issue, and the basis on which the supporting or contrary interpretations should be evaluated.
Re4: Perplexity in four dimensions
December 18, 2007 by Burt, 1 year 49 weeks ago
Comment: 26510
Jim, perhaps my final piece of technical advice to you: do not use standard terms and then attach a non-standard definition to them, e.g., the spacetime interval. The spacetime interval is defined in terms of the geometric difference between a time interval and a space interval between two events. It is not the wordline length of bodies or even the propertime of clocks, except in special cases, when the space interval happens to be zero. I think this practice of yours has a lot to do with the fact that people cannot successfully communicate with you on your ideas. If you have to coin a new technical term to describe something, then define it very carefully and make sure the term does not already have a generally accepted definition.
Despite your 'chuckles', I'm honestly of the opinion that your hypothesis on light is not far from Absorber Theory and hence may have some merit (perhaps the best 'press' you had for a while:-) If you are adamant that it is not, then I'm afraid...
You wrote: "The Absorber Theory doesn’t explain the things I’ve (claimed to be) explained by my hypothesis. Any similarities to my hypothesis are incidental."
Can you give a few examples of what your theory explains that Absorber Theory does not, using standard definitions of standard terms? Please avoid, e.g.: "... treating the motion of light as the reflection of the actual motion of mass in time ...", which makes no sense in standard technical terms.
Finally, why is it that you seem so reluctant to put that example of the light in the room with observers on one of YOUR spacetime diagrams? Do not tell us it cannot be adequately represented on a 3-d spacetime drawing (two space and one time). After all, a 3-d spatial bubble or spherical wave front on such a diagram is just a circle. I actually think you can put it on a 2-d diagram (one space and one time) if you want to…
Burt
Re: Perplexity in four dimensions
December 17, 2007 by Burt, 1 year 49 weeks ago
Comment: 26500
Hi Jim.
I'm not going to reply to your full post now - too late in my valley, but will do so in due time.
Just two points for now.
1. The Epstein diagram is essentially the same as your spacetime diagram, but do find and look it up anyway.
2. You wrote: "There’s no need to multiply time by c, given the equality of spacetime intervals expressed in (t^2 = s^2 + x^2)."
This is only (partially) true in geometric units, where c=1 and time is expressed in meters or cm. In conventional SI units, which is preferable for non-physicists, time is expressed in seconds and distance in meters. Hence time has to be multiplied by c to convert it to meters. [Edit] One can also use geometric units of seconds and light-seconds, or years and light-years, which simply means all 3 space axes are divided by c to make it compatible with the time axis. [/edit]
BTW, the correct SI equation for the spacetime interval is: dS^2 = (cdt)^2-dX^2 for timelike intervals and dS^2 = dX^2-(cdt)^2 for spacelike intervals, where the "d" means differential and dX^2 = dx^2+dy^2+dz^2, as applicable. Then, as you know, there is the lightlike interval where dS = 0.
There is no spacetime interval involved if you only have the values x and t, as you stated. It only makes sense for intervals of time and intervals of space.
Regards, Burt
RE: Hmm
December 17, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 49 weeks ago
Comment: 26499
Amos,
I've just discovered your post. The design of the thread doesn’t work well, when a reply to an earlier post doesn’t go to the bottom. I’m gonna have to look for others I've missed. But meanwhile, in response to your question (you’re not soft-spoken, are you?), I may have answered it in some part with my answer to Burt just now. Beyond what I originally wrote in my article, I’m not sure what more clarity I can provide. If light doesn’t move in time (as is suggested by Lorentz), it seems plausible that it doesn’t move at all. And if light doesn’t move, if its apparent motion is the reflection of the motion of mass in time, as I’ve tried to explain, the unexplained peculiarities of its behavior become explicable. If my example for Burt doesn’t answer your questions, maybe you can frame your questions again.
Re: Re: Questions on a hypothesis on light
December 13, 2007 by Burt, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26442
Hi Jim.
You wrote: "If you think in terms of two signallers each “depositing†a (stationary) photon in space as they move more or less parallel to each other in spacetime, they each radiate, relative to their photon-deposits, from the location of their photon-deposits, and after approx. 1.25 seconds the wave-front of each radiation intersects the location of each other’s photons."
So the signalers 'radiate' themselves at the speed of light towards the other? Some form of teleportation? 'Scotty' might have been impressed!
Have you thought about a signaler that radiates photons isotropically in every direction. How would these photons reach the distant stars? Do we need a 'Big Crunch' of all the masses of the universe before any can observe the signals?
Sorry Jim, but of all the hypotheses on the nature of light that I've seen, this one must come close to the most metaphysical of all!
Regards, Burt
Re...: Questions on a hypothesis on light
December 13, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26443
“So the signalers 'radiate' themselves at the speed of light towards the other? Some form of teleportation? 'Scotty' might have been impressed!â€
I’ve shown that if light doesn’t move in time, as is suggested by the Lorentz transformations and the invariant interval, if spacetime is a continuum, if motion in time is perpendicular to space (consistent, again, with the Lorentz transformations and the invariant interval), motion perpendicular to a point in space would be a radial trajectory.
“Have you thought about a signaler that radiates photons isotropically in every direction. How would these photons reach the distant stars?â€
See Bell, cited in my article.
“Sorry Jim, but of all the hypotheses on the nature of light that I've seen, this one must come close to the most metaphysical of all!â€
Four-dimensional motion is non-intuitive, probably impossible to imagine. What part of the above is “metaphysical�
What's metaphysical?
December 13, 2007 by Burt, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26450
Hi Jim.
Your opening statement in the reply is correct until you stated: "motion perpendicular to a point in space would be a radial trajectory."
This may not be metaphysical, but it's utterly undefined. Motion cannot be perpendicular to a point... What's metaphysical is that your two observers (signalers) apparently reach each other's spatial locations (separated by 1.25 ls) in a time of 1.25 seconds flat!
On the omnidirectional photon transmission you said: "See Bell, cited in my article."
I'm afraid you are grossly abusing "Bell's inequalities" here, if that is what you are referring to. They were designed to test between the 'locality' of special relativity and the 'non-locality' of QM, which so far, QM won. It does not say anything like what you postulate.
So my question stands: “Have you thought about a signaler that radiates photons isotropically in every direction. How would these photons reach the distant stars?â€
Maybe you should stop the 'hand-waving' arguments and draw us one of your diagrams (the type is officially accredited to Epstein, I believe) showing how, where and when (with the math) some distant observers receive those isotropically radiated photons...
Burt
No paradox at all, and no "absolute rest"
December 11, 2007 by Fred Bortz, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26406
Jim, I'm sorry to see that you are once again misunderstanding the basic way physicists view the universe, in particular the wave/particle duality. It may have seemed like a paradox when it was first discovered, but it is not paradoxical at all.
Here's how I explain it on pp.9-10 of Physics Decade by Decade (Facts on File, 20th century science set, 2007):
Once that duality was understood, it led to even more productive ideas like quantum mechanics.
Unfortunately, this article continues to assume that the wave-particle question has an either-or answer. Its basic premise is thus invalid, since nature itself tells us the answer is both.
Besides the mistaken idea that this is a paradox, this article compounds the problem by use of the phrase "absolute rest," suggesting that the universe has an absolute frame of reference with respect to which light is at rest.
Einstein's writings plus a century of subsequent research refute the idea of an absolute frame of reference and have proven quite successful in describing the physical world.
So once again, you are challenging two descriptions of nature that are well-established by innumerable measurements: Einstein's Theory of Relativity and the fundamental quantum nature of matter and energy. This article has no value without observational or experimental evidence refuting those descriptions.
Cite such evidence and I may engage further.
P.S.: I know my language could be more diplomatic, but it is not a personal attack on you. Please respond to the scientific points. I suggest you review your basic physics first. My book might be a useful place to start. Ask your local library to order a copy so others can benefit from it as well.
Fred Bortz -- Science and technology books for young readers (www.fredbortz.com) and Science book reviews (www.scienceshelf.com)
Re: No paradox at all, and no "absolute rest"
December 11, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26409
Fred, I’m not “misunderstanding the basic way physicists view the universeâ€, I’m offering a resolution to some unresolved issues. To disagree is not necessarily to misunderstand.
“It [wave/particle duality] may have seemed like a paradox when it was first discovered, but it is not paradoxical at all.â€
A phenomenon that appears in some cases as a virtual point, and in some cases as a wave remains a paradox even when it’s declared that it’s not a paradox.
“asking an either-or question about the nature of light was the wrong approach, because experiments were showing it to be both.“
As I’m sure you understand, it’s more accurate to say “we interpret experiments to show that it’s both.â€
“Unfortunately, this article continues to assume that the wave-particle question has an either-or answer. Its basic premise is thus invalid, since nature itself tells us the answer is both.â€
Scientists have interpreted various phenomena to indicate that light is both particle-like and wave-like. Nature “tells us†nothing, she only smiles, and leaves us to wonder what she’s smiling about.
“this article compounds the problem by use of the phrase ‘absolute rest,’ suggesting that the universe has an absolute frame of reference with respect to which light is at rest.â€
You misunderstand my statement. I’m saying that light should be considered at rest from any frame of reference. That would be “absolute.â€
“So once again, you are challenging two descriptions of nature that are well-established by innumerable measurements: Einstein's Theory of Relativity and the fundamental quantum nature of matter and energy.â€
Actually, I’m not. I’m attempting to resolve an apparent paradox that has nothing to do with the Theory of Relativity and if anything, reinforces the idea of the fundamental quantum nature of matter. Even if I were challenging those most time-honored interpretations, a challenge isn’t invalidated by an establishment. Your objection, your objections in general, seem to betray an overarching interest in convention. The issues I'm raising should stand or fall on their own merit.
By scientific standards, an interpretation that is compelled to embrace paradox is less satisfactory than an interpretation that resolves paradox, no matter which interpretation has precedence, no matter how firmly established the paradox, no matter how solemnly it’s pronounced a non-paradox.
You’ve written “Nature is what it is.†The entire history of science has shown that nature isn’t what we thought it was.
“This article has no value without observational or experimental evidence refuting those descriptions.â€
I’m offering a different interpretation of observations and evidence, consistent with the observations and evidence. I’m explaining why there appears to be a paradox, and suggesting that it’s not a paradox at all. Scientific interpretation is considered more valuable if it explains, rather than shrugs.
Paradox, shmaradox?
December 11, 2007 by Fred Bortz, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26411
Jim,
Your argument simply comes down to this: Even though physicists are quite satisfied with it, you don't like the "both" answer because you seem to be stuck on asking "either-or."
That is why you call it a paradox, even though the standard interpretation of physics says it isn't. And because you call it a paradox, you find the need to reintroduce the discredited idea of an absolute frame of reference--and go farther to make that frame one in which light is stationary. How that can be possible for light beams traveling in different directions with respect to an observer in an inertial frame, I wouldn't begin to guess. (And please spare us all an answer to that!)
The current description has, in fact, been quite productive technologically and theoretically, judging by the many successes of both relativity and quantum mechanics, several of which are discussed in the aforementioned book by yours truly.
So until you can show evidence the current description is in error and thus needs to be refined, I see no value in arguing about the definition of the word "paradox." And I certainly don't want to get back to our old discussion of frames of reference.
One more thing. You write: "A phenomenon that appears in some cases as a virtual point, and in some cases as a wave remains a paradox even when it’s declared that it’s not a paradox."
Quantum mechanics does not speak of either a "virtual point" or "a wave." The closest it comes to either is the Schroedinger formulation of a wave function, which is particle-like when narrow and wave-like when broad. That resolves the so-called "paradox" that you seem to insist is there.
So as noted earlier, without evidence that the standard formulation is incorrect, I see no reason to engage further. If you don't show me the evidence, I'm outta here! (I can feel "Gadfly" ready to bite me for even going this far with you.)
Fred Bortz -- Science and technology books for young readers (www.fredbortz.com) and Science book reviews (www.scienceshelf.com)
Paradox.
December 12, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26416
Yes. Of course.
Jim has spoken!
December 12, 2007 by Gadfly, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26419
Despite Fred's clear explanation of why this is no paradox, Jim declares it is one.
Fred asks for evidence, and so does this Gadfly, who is biting the obstinate jarnold, who dismisses relativity, quantum mechanics, and a century of physics with a simple declaration.
"Paradox!" he insists.
"Meow!" agrees Schrödinger's cat.
This bite of realism brought to you by "Gadfly."
Paradox redux
December 12, 2007 by jarnold, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26420
Sometimes light seems to behave like a particle, sometimes like a wave. The two phenomena are mutually exclusive in their manifestations. Physics has progressed since the acceptance of the duality by treating light as a particle or a wave whenever appropriate, whenever necessary. Mutually exclusive phenomena, two contradictory aspects of one principle, remains a paradox, however enshrined the paradox. Get out your dictionary. Look up wave, particle, and paradox.
You want to play with me. No, please, play with yourself.
Paradox Re-quacks!
December 12, 2007 by Gadfly, 1 year 50 weeks ago
Comment: 26421
Jim writes:
"Sometimes light seems to behave like a particle, sometimes like a wave. The two phenomena are mutually exclusive in their manifestations."
Not according to quantum mechanics, which says the two phenomena are not "mutually exclusive" but different aspects of the same thing.
Some people need a second bite from a playful Gadfly.
This bite of realism brought to you by "Gadfly."