you are a crazzy

Somewhere in the future, a country where people grin gleefully as they are forced into inhumane conditions waits.

i have complex post traumatic stress disorder its a genetic disorder i would like to say these drugs tested on mice/rats for genetic illnesses cant be put in human bodies the only cure is to reengineer the future generation leave people's bodies alone the mind and body are one they are not separate entities all those drugs did is mess up my natural balance of meatbolism and hormones and all the problems i have now are a result of those drugs in my system i was healthier without them .....medication is no answer......all they do by strinking an unnatural imbalnce is potentially make u suicidal even if your gene does not carry you that far.....

Have you seen a doctor who knows about environmental illnesses? My allergy to fish caused incapacitating headaches, the worst kind, they say, until I was tested. No more fish, no more headaches. Eating beef cause the "sham rage" and tears. Not bothered with that any more either. Of course depression goes with that- when a doctor doesn't know why it's happenind and you can't stop it and consider suicide, a person would be a fool NOT to be depressed. Go to an allergist who knows about food allergies/chemical allergies (as petroleums).

Just because this experiment utilized genetic knockouts does not mean a therapy derived from the data would require that.
The gene removed from the mice is the blueprint for manufacture of a protein, in this case a potassium transporter involved in serotonin release and production. The results suggest that drug companies should explore creation of drugs that can inhibit the action of this protein, perhaps by binding to it and blocking its transport of potassium.
The use of gene therapy in depression would be quite controversial, and instead the creation of new drugs that can target this protein is the much more likely result of this finding.

My partner has suffered winter depressions most of his life. They totally affect his ability to function in a normal way and he loses all motivation to do anything except sleep. Earlier this year we began to attend our local church as we have both started to question what is the point of life in this "me-focussed" and materialistic world and surely there must be more to life. Well a few months ago he did an "Alpha " course and became a Christian and for the first time he has sailed through winter with not a hint of depression, and no drugs! His whole personality, way he relates to the kids has altered for the better. (Read CS Lewis' book "Mere Christianity".)

The article said that the mice acted like "mice that had been treated with antidepressants for at least the last 3 weeks" not that they acted like NORMAL mice!!! As other people have pointed out, our current "antidepressants" carry a list of horrible effects as well as positive ones. And they're as addictive as alcohol and the always demonized opiates. It's time people just stopped spewing and believed propaganda and start prescribing drugs that work on depression and don't have disgusting and ill-understood side effects such as morphine, hydromorphone(a morphine-like drug), diacetylmorphine(a morphine-like drug called heroin), methadone(a slightly longer acting morphine-like drug), or even buprenorphine(a mixed opiate agonist-antagonist). These drugs are understood and help depression in a vastly larger portion of the patients than the popular drugs; they have understood side-effects (e.g. constipation -- that's it for the vast majority); they don't cause brain damage or organ damage; they don't cause teeth rotting like people claim (look at an alcoholics teeth, yet was it the drug that caused the teeth to rot?); they don't sedate people who use them consistently; in tests, there is no mental dulling as is seen with every class of antidepressants. AND, FROM THE START, OPIATES REDUCE DEPRESSION. THERE'S NO NEED FOR A LABEL SAYING THAT THEY MAY ACTUALLY INCREASE SUICIDE RISK!

When someone claims that Prozac isn't addictive but morphine is, ask him why the users of the drugs feel "lightning strikes" in their heads when stopping. I'd personally taper off of morphine, a compound taken over thousands of years by human beings for physical and mental pain rather than take a drug that makes me *feel* my brain damage in the form of mental lightning strikes. NO MORE PROPAGANDA. NO MORE LIES. READ THE SCIENCE.
(excuse my hasty spelling and if the current psych drugs work for you, then I'm happy for you, but I hope you understand that doctors don't understand the side-effects! The drugs have only existed for 5 or 10 years, so be watchful and careful.

There is no depression in NZ

First off
Apologies to anyone I may have angered, it was not my intention.

No, unfortunatley, I am not unfamiliar with mental illness. Being at the functional end of the autistic spectrum myself and also subject to bouts of depression make my head not a happy place to live in. Self medication is not the answer, while cannabis and alcohol can, in large quantities, alleviate some of the pain they have a definate, and obvious, functional cost. It also forms a vicious circle.

But back to the original discussion...
Is depression part of the hibernation system ?,
to retreat and withdraw during adverse conditions ?
Is depression part of the hibernation system kicking in at inappropriate times ?

Void

I'd drink that tea!

I wonder how they can tell that the mice are depressed? Do they start listening to The Cure and color their hair black?

sure! seasonal depression is basically human hibernation.

You are right, it isn't "called for" to call someone an "idot" when they ask a question.
However, as a person that has struggled with depression for as long as I can remember, I also reacted with anger to your question. As I read it I understood it to be rhetorical rather than seeking information. Perhaps that is not what you meant to communicate.
The anger response,(I can only speak for myself), is linked to desperate desire that I could just "pick myself up" and get going, accompanied by the deeply painful feeling that something is "wrong" with me because I can't.
However, the body and the mind, (for what is the mind but workings of the physical brain), ARE the same. That is why neurotransmitter levels effect a person's outlook on life and situations, and one's ability to "bounce back" from distressing situations in life. That is also why when my blood sugar is low, I become forgetful, tired, impatient, irritable, depressed, and so on.
Neurons and neurotransmitters are physical, and they are what makes up your brain, the physical organ of your "mind."
The separation of "mind and body" is a western concept, and I believe it to be an unhealthy one. We deprive ourselves of good food and sleep, and endure physical pain because we believe that our body is a only a vehicle for our-"selves."
You are very, very fortunate if you have never experienced this type of depresson. I hope you never do.

Repeat after me... Mind and Body are not the same.
Different chemicals, different effects.
BTW, calling someone an idiot for asking a question ? I don't think that is called for.

Void

do you suffer from mental illness....? Or know someone personally that is suffering from it? if your answer is no then that's all I have to say about your "opinion". "picking yourself up and brushing yourself off" Wow, You should march right into a mental hospital, call a general meeting with the care workers and tell them that. You've found the cure for mental illness. Why I should just go to a patient with a broken foot to keep pulling himself up by his bootstraps. And that his broken foot is caused by lack of ambition and "stick to it" ness. in short, DONT TALK WHEN YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

No, tis not the same. The chemicals that enter the tissues of an organism that hibernates are completely different than those that affect depression. A bear, for instance, is one of the very few larger mammals that can truly hibernate, they have a unique chemical still under investigation that allow them to cut all normal functions to be depressed; pulse, breathing, digestion, excretion and more are significantly decreased. A bear in hibernation will not have any bowel or urinary output, the normal waste products are absorbed and utilized for energy production. This is completely different from depression. What an idiot!!!!!!

I was jumping off 2nd & 3rd story roofs by age 9 or 10, never broke anything, tis just a matter of jumping properly. Pain is relative; it only hurts when U notice it, unlike depression, which is impossible to ignore if it is biochemical in nature. So sure, jump if U want, just do it properly so U don't hurt yourself, and take Ur antidepressants regularly. Will help keep U sane as U jump.

As a mouse of many years standing, I can confirm that clapping and moving to dance music is one sign to look for that a mouse is happy. Listening to Nick Cave and smoking morosely in a darkened cage is a bad sign. And mice rarely jump from second storey windows, whether teenaged or not. We prefer setting fire to ourselves, given the choice of suicide methods. Or Gouda overdose, best of all.

Altering genes to reduce susceptibility to depression sounds like it can only be applied to offspring, not a current sufferer. So, it seems the most likely human application could be to identify human sufferers who are potential parents and then, assuming a degree of depression will be inherited, genetically engineer their sperm/eggs...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_swimming_test

Now they need to find a gene responsible for enhancing the levels of seratonin that is released while partially inhibiting reuptake of seratonin (and possibly dopamine & norepinephrine). You will get more then just a happy mouse, you will get a really happy mouse who cant stop moving to dance music.

Is hibernation not a natural response to an adverse environment ? Could, what we call, depression not be a human version of what we call hibernation ? After all the sypmtoms sound the same to me, loss of libido, excess sleep etc. I think we, too often, forget we are animals Void

Don't genes exist for a reason? Wouldn't every gene have passed its own Darwin Award and justify its existance by promoting survival, at least in a situation common enough to have allowed its bearer to breed? What problems would we face if we never had to deal with depression? Would chronically happy people fail to be successful and breed as well as periodically depressed people, um... I mean mice...

Isn't this how the Reavers got started on Serenity?

It's pretty apparent that you have no experience with depression or depressed people. Nor do you have an understanding of depression

Consider- it's not depression that fuels art, but intensely felt emotion, even if it's negative. Suffering causes strong emotions, from which can come great art. Remove depression and we'd probably have more art.

First off, how can you tell if a mouse is depressed? or happy? When they don't make it through the maze and stop searching for that yellow piece of cheese at the end? I guess depressed mice, similar to depressed humans, give up and can't handle when life's challenges, as cruel as it may be at times. While yes, medicine, and gene alternation i suppose, can be good, what ever happened to just picking yourself up, brushing of the dust, and putting one foot in front of the other after you fall down. Is it really necessary, as pathetically as it sounds, to alter genetic make-up for people (or mice) to be happy?

eek :>( ... kersplat

your second story fall would have probably hurt, maybe even paralyzed you, but it wouldn't have killed you...

As someone with a close friend who has suffered from depression for a long time, I'm not holding my breath on this one. Firstly, most drugs directly affecting Serotonin (can) also have unwanted effects on sleeping patterns and sex drive (which can be concluded from the description above). I'd be interested to know whether the sleep and sex-related patterns of knock-out mice are different from those of "normal" mice.

That is an ignorant, naive and ultimately romanticized view of artistry and mental illness. I suffer depression and work with artists all the time. The suffering that occurs in connection with "great" artists or artwork is political, social, and/or situational. Depression can and does occur with none of these factors present because it is a physical ailment, with neurobiological pathology. Treating and curing depression therefore has little to do with avoiding suffering, nor with acheiving outward "happiness".

I'm glad we won't have any more depressed mice. We needed this for a long time. Thank you modern science!!

Someone should do a study on the link between depression and the complete and total lack of a sense of humor. If these medical advances prevent distraught teenagers from jumping out second-storey windows and breaking their ankles, though, I'm all for it.

Its terrible to have to deal with depression every day. When I was a teenager I had to avoid looking out of our second story school window because I only thought of jumping. Every day would be a fresh hell for me. It's because of medication I have the hope of being happy. Before it was a quality that only others possesed. Please, Stop and think before you make such insenstive commments.

Isn't great art born out of suffering? :) No depression, no masterpieces!

I have suffered depression for several months now, affecting my relationship with my wife. Minnie has always said I had a tempramental side (usual brought out after a roquefort binge) so I look forward to experiencing treatment deriving from this breakthrough.