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Old men chasing young women: A good thing

It turns out that older men chasing younger women contributes to human longevity and the survival of the species, according to new findings by researchers at Stanford and the University of California-Santa Barbara.

Evolutionary theory says that individuals should die of old age when their reproductive lives are complete, generally by age 55 in humans, according to demographer Cedric Puleston, a doctoral candidate in biological sciences at Stanford. But the fatherhood of a small number of older men is enough to postpone the date with death because natural selection fights life-shortening mutations until the species is finished reproducing.

"Rod Stewart and David Letterman having babies in their 50s and 60s provide no benefit for their personal survival, but the pattern [of reproducing at a later age] has an effect on the population as a whole," Puleston said. "It's advantageous to the species if these people stick around. By increasing the survival of men you have a spillover effect on women because men pass their genes to children of both sexes."

"Why Men Matter: Mating Patterns Drive Evolution of Human Lifespan," was published Aug. 29 in the online journal Public Library of Science ONE. Shripad Tuljapurkar, the Morrison Professor of Population Studies at Stanford; Puleston; and Michael Gurven, an assistant professor of anthropology at UCSB, co-authored the study in an effort to understand why humans don't die when female reproduction ends.

Human ability to scale the so-called "wall of death"—surviving beyond the reproductive years—has been a center of scientific controversy for more than 50 years, Puleston said. "The central question is: Why should a species that stops reproducing by some age stick around afterward?" he said. "Evolutionary theory predicts that, over time, harmful mutations that decrease survival will arise in the population and will remain invisible to natural selection after reproduction ends." However, in hunter-gatherer societies, which likely represent early human demographic conditions and mating patterns, one-third of people live beyond 55 years, past the reproductive lifespan for women. Furthermore, life expectancy in today's industrialized countries is 75 to 85 years, with mortality increasing gradually, not abruptly, following female menopause.

Grandmother hypothesis

In 1966, William Hamilton, a British evolutionary biologist, worked out the mathematics describing the "wall of death." Since then, the most popular explanation for why humans don't die by age 55 has been termed the "grandmother hypothesis," which suggests that women enhance the survival of their children and grandchildren by living long enough to care for them and "increasing the success of their genes," Puleston said. However, Hamilton's work has been difficult to express as a mathematical and genetic argument explaining why people live into old age.

Unlike previous research on human reproduction, this study—for the first time—includes data on males, a tweak that allowed the researchers to begin answering the "wall of death" question by matching it to human mortality patterns. According to Puleston, earlier studies looked only at women, because scientists can reproduce good datasets for humans entirely based on information related to female fertility and survival rates.

"Men's fertility is contingent on women's fertility—you have to figure out how they match up. We care about reproduction because that is a currency by which force of selection is counted. If we have not accounted for the entire pattern of reproduction, we may be missing something that's important to evolution."

Men and longevity

In the paper, the researchers analyzed "a general two-sex model to show that selection favors survival for as long as men reproduce." The scientists presented a "range of data showing that males much older than 50 years have substantial realized fertility through matings with younger females, a pattern that was likely typical among early humans." As a result, Puleston said, older male fertility helps to select against damaging cell mutations in humans who have passed the age of female menopause, consequently eliminating the "wall of death."

"Our analysis shows that old-age male fertility allows evolution to breach Hamilton's wall of death and predicts a gradual rise in mortality after the age of female menopause without relying on 'grandmother' effects or economic optimality," the researchers say in the paper.

The scientists compiled longevity and fertility data from two hunter-gatherer groups, the Dobe !Kung of the Kalahari and the Ache of Paraguay, one of the most isolated populations in the world. They also looked at the forager-farmer Yanomamo of Brazil and Venezuela, and the Tsimane, an indigenous group in Bolivia. "They're living a lifestyle that our ancestors lived and their fertility patterns are probably most consistent with our ancestors," Puleston said about the four groups. The study also looked at several farming villages in Gambia and, for comparison, a group of modern Canadians.

In the less developed, traditional societies, males were as much as 5-to-15 years older than their female partners. In the United States and Europe, the age spread was about two years. "It's a universal pattern that in typical marriages men are older than women," Puleston said. "The age gaps vary by culture, but in every group we looked at men start [being reproductive] later. At the end of reproduction, male fertility rates taper off gradually, as opposed to the fairly sharp decline in female fertility by menopause."

Despite small differences based on marriage traditions, all women and most men in the six groups stopped having children by their 50s, the researchers found. But some men, particularly high-status males, continued to reproduce into their 70s. The paper noted that the age gap is most pronounced in societies that favor polygyny, where a man takes several wives, and in gerontocracies, where older men monopolize access to reproductive women. The authors also cite genetic and anthropological evidence that early humans were probably polygynous as well.

Older male fertility also exists in societies supporting serial monogamy, because men are more likely to remarry than women. "For these reasons, we argue that realized male fertility was substantial at ages well past female menopause for much of human history and the result is reflected in the mortality patterns of modern populations," the authors say. "We conclude that deleterious mutations acting after the age of female menopause are selected against … solely as a result of the matings between older males and younger females."

According to Puleston, the "grandmother hypothesis" may be true, but the real pattern of male fertility extends beyond this explanation. "The key question is: Does the population have a greater growth rate if men are reproducing at a later age? The answer is 'yes.' The age of last reproduction gets pushed into the 60s and 70s if you add men to the analysis. Hamilton's approach was right, but in a species where males and females have different reproductive patterns, you need a two-sex model. You can't correctly estimate the force of selection if you leave men out of the picture. As a man myself, it's gratifying to know that men do matter."

Grants from the U.S. National Institute on Aging supported this study.

http://news-service.stanford.edu

Submitted by BJS on Thu, 2007-09-13 06:33.

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My husband is 29 years older

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 2008-10-12 02:40.

My husband is 29 years older too- i am 28, he is 57. I have never been happier in my life! I am sick by the childish comments on the issue. Love has no age and doesn't ask about yours.

  • reply

GOOD LUCK

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2008-10-09 20:04.

It's always hot the first year, But wait until your 29 years older starts acting his age .... I was married to a man older, WAS MARRIED

  • reply

21 in love with a 45 year old man

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2008-10-09 19:54.

Either you have real father issue's,or just wait until you want to live your age ,
what I mean when you want to live in your young life in your 29's or when your in your 30's you just want to be there with your own age group people DAD want to watch T.V. not hip hop!!

  • reply

your right old man chasing

Submitted by Anonymous on Wed, 2008-10-08 14:44.

your right old man chasing younger women is natsty . young women such as my dather should not put up with that that is just so pervated.

  • reply

YUCK.

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 2008-10-07 18:33.

Older men who try to hit on younger girls are DISGUSTING! What makes them think younger men are interested? They are OLD, GROSS and PERVERTED. YUCK! If anything thats called sexual harrassement, nothing different than some pedophile hitting on a younger woman just because she of age. That is just truly DISGUSTING PERIOD.

  • reply

Demands?

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2008-10-02 07:47.

Are you a tyrant? Love is not about "demands." Perhaps, in time, you will realize this.

Om

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Load of...

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 2008-09-29 10:55.

This is the worst article I have ever read.

As a women in her prime early twenties I can say that I would end up a lot healthier with a younger man as younger men can handle my demands in the bedroom more than an older man (from experience) and not only can they handle it; they last longer and in the end I'll be healthier getting laid more often.

  • reply

i'm a 21 year old girl, and

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 2008-09-28 22:15.

i'm a 21 year old girl, and i'm head over heels for a 49 year old man.
He isnt rich by the way!
I love him so much...

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I agree, except for the part

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2008-09-25 08:07.

I agree, except for the part of being with the same woman nite after nite.
My girl actually gets turned on by the idea of me with another woman. I've never met a woman who understands men like her. We have a great sex life, at least once a day. I feel like I have the best woman in the whole world and I never seem to tire of her.

  • reply

Typical evolutionary psychology just-so story

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 2008-09-15 15:48.

They just NEVER stop coming up with reasons why male privilege is the natural order of things.

This is politics, not science. And if it wasn't for Viagra there wouldn't be nearly so many old men who could get it up.

But I'm sure they'll come up with a reason why Viagra is part of the natural order too.

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I had hoped...

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 2008-09-14 20:42.

Six months ago this wouldn't be a hot article still - but yeah, it is.

I think it must have some bad ass google pagerank value for some typical searches - which is why there are so many fly-by-nighters commenting.

It has become another life constant: Death, Taxes, Speed of Light and This article will get commented on. Forget the higgs boson, lets get some real betting on the date this article stops getting reads. :)

Eric

  • reply

Why?

Submitted by Renaisauce on Sun, 2008-09-14 14:36.

I can't believe this is still a hot article after a year. Hadn't the conversation become wicked gross after the first month. Let's move on.

  • reply

Older Men Chasing Young Women: Biological Disaster

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 2008-09-14 13:49.

... Are you kidding me?

It's been scientifically proven that older men have a much higher risk of producing offspring that come out with physical defects and mental disorders. That plus the how much more likely a young woman is to get pregnant than an older one, the next generation is bound to have all manner of dysfunctional traits.

  • reply

learn about life

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 2008-09-14 00:13.

idiot

  • reply

Good for you....girl, you

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2008-09-11 16:44.

Good for you....girl, you only get one life..
Make it a happy one. Love is the key.Good luck.

  • reply

age gap

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2008-09-11 10:12.

Hello I'm 27, he's 58. We have been together for 2 1/2 years and madly in love. We have more in common then i ever had with anyone elese. And no he doesn't have a million dollars to leave me he just has wonderful memories to leave. And who is to say he'll go first!

  • reply

older women, younger men

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 2008-09-06 17:56.

Well I might add that I am 66 and my husband is 52 and we have been married for 26 years now. I hope that this is the last stop, but if for some reason, it is not, then I sure am grateful for what we have and have had.

  • reply

just shut up and let people be happy

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2008-09-04 09:39.

I am a 26 year old professional female who happens to be in love with a man 29 years older than me. Am I a gold digger? Certainly not, my income exceeds his by about 20k a year. Why am I interested in an older man? Coudln't tell you an exact reason, I just am. He was married for over 20 years to a wonderful woman, whom he recently divorced about 3 years ago, before I was even in the picture. I have known Stan for about six months now, and I feel closer to him than I have any other man I have dated, including my exhusband who was my age. We share common intrests, same love of music, and not to mention, terriffic sex. Older women need to get off their asses and stop complaining that the younger women are trying to break up families, thats not true in all cases, and younger men need to act more adult (in some cases, also), if they expect good women to stay around. If a person's situation doesn't affect you personally, stay OUT OF IT!

  • reply

RE: Nonsence

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 2008-09-01 11:04.

I bet you are fat, lazy, ugly woman, dumped by your husband. You are masking your identity by stating your credentials on the first paragraph. The rest of your statements shows your hatred to men with younger women.

For you and the rest of older, fat, wrinkled ang cordoroy legs women.....try to get younger man.

  • reply

Re:older man and youger woman

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 2008-09-01 10:49.

Get the law involved getting rid of your husband. GO AND BE HAPPY !!! LIFE IS TOO SHORT !!

Be smart how ever to protect you and your kids future. Life is not a TV series where everything in family life are humor and always a happy ending.

Don't worry about other "opinions" in this blog. That is their own battle to fight. Go to yours, just make sure you have enough ammo for future challenges in life.

  • reply

I'm sure you'll find plenty

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 2008-08-26 20:09.

I'm sure you'll find plenty of younger women willing to pass on the couch potato gene to future generations

  • reply

How long does it take,,,?

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 2008-08-25 20:07.

If women would stop being so selfish there men may stay happy. Lets get the 800 pound gorilla outt of the living room people. Men will always want to sleep with other women and most of them will be younger then you. We are drawn to variety no matter what you do. It doesn't mean we don't love our wives. It just drives us crazy to be with the same women every night for the rest of our lives. That just sounds crazy. When ever I"cheat" I actually find myself more attracted to my girlfriend. My point is let us stray a few nights a year. Ask 'how was it' maybe we will actually be motivated enough to get of the couch.

  • reply

What a disgusting

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 2008-08-25 15:02.

What a disgusting generalization. Being young does not make you an amoral, opportunistic slut. Obviously.

  • reply

I'm sorry for what this man

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 2008-08-25 13:44.

I'm sorry for what this man put you through. It is certainly not what the good Lord intended.

Paul

  • reply

Younger Women vs. Older Women

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2008-08-22 07:37.

Older women, symbols of maturity, class and intelligence.

Younger Women easy access to open legs when is money involve. Dommy's, and no class at all.

  • reply

Evolution will finish us all off

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 2008-08-18 15:51.

Sooner or later the human race will become extinct if it stays on this planet. The last old man and woman will be eaten by the giant cockroaches and their remains consumed by the big flat worms. Whilst it is possible that the man will be 200 years old and the woman 198 years old, I wouldn't bet on it.

However, their cyber selves will continue for several decades after that, seemingly eternally young, living on the great hard drive which is powered by the sun's rays until it too burns out.

Then all this will be put into perspective.

  • reply

How long does it take for the pain to ease?

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 2008-08-17 21:23.

Dear Anonymous:

Sever your ties with that man and move on with your life. Like you and yours, my husband and I were a loving couple with the usual married ups and downs, but we always supported each other through difficult times. Three years ago we separated after 30 years of marriage. I wanted to work on the marriage and he didn't, but he never had the guts to tell me the reason - that he had a girlfriend 25 years younger (her 35 - him 60, me 51). He let me go on trying to salvage our relationship without telling me he was in love with another woman. I found out later it was our small town's best kept secret & everyone thought I knew about it! Divorce him and don't feel guilty for taking half of everything. You deserve it. How long does it take for the pain to ease? It starts getting better after 3-5 years.

  • reply

It's definitely physical attraction

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2008-08-15 16:20.

I am currently involved with a man 14 yrs older than me (37/51) previous to this relationship i always went for younger men. However when I met my current squeeze it had nothing to do with money,power or any other nonsense - as he has none- I just couldn't help myself, I had known him for a long time time before anything happened now I can't imagine life without him(& his kids + grandkids)but I love him & accept any of the older man issues that go along with that. He is the best relationship I have ever had in every way. However I accept that this is because of who he is rather than what age he is!

  • reply

Younger partners...w/ Older Partners...(dynamics don't matter)

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2008-08-14 02:33.

Younger/ older vs. older/younger dynamics is simple? PURPOSE? when two people vibe together there is a sense of purpose. When purpose is lost so too does the vibe that initiated it. Too many people regardless of the dynamics forget that life is about living! When you alter the dynamics regardless of what is involved you will always change the current situation. i.e. a couple married for 20+ years suddenly find themselves in a divorce preceding...why? not just because money, or someone else, but because of money and someone else! If you ever been involved in a board meeting with so many different opinions flying around you either fight your way through (tiresome) or quit (escape) if you drudge through (compromise) or create new policy (win) levels are adjusted. Now this sounds so political but here is the scoop. people are inherantly becoming more aware of there mortality and understand that life is to be lived at a moving pace. not a standing one. if two people share a common energy then they move together. When one person becomes complacent or comfortable, the other is lost. It's never about age...It's always about energy. Like energy attracts like energy. Don't believe me, just look at the simularities in a couples life dynamics. TV, Cooking, Caring, Travel, education etc....these things are usually on the same track as the other person while not entirely identical. The mental issue stands clear. Older/Younger dynamics is constant since no two things are or will ever be alike in the exact reference. Be it older women to younger men, younger women to older men, older women to older men and youner men to younger women, it will always the be energy that binds them. If you take a light bulb and it burns out but you never change it.. you will seek light someplace else? If you take a partner that suddenly or continuously become complacent in life you will seek out another? Survival is genetic and beyond. for a species to survive it must adapt and overcome the obstacles that hinder or challenge it. As a self adjusting and aware species, we are becoming more aware of this however on an individual level some are more aware than others. But this is just my opinion...everybody gets one

  • reply

fiscal/physical attraction by genuine

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 2008-08-10 16:19.

its definately physical attraction: so, I take it you are a man. Because yes, when love is genuine physical attraction is a factor, but fiscal attraction has been described in these posts as a major factor for younger women wanting to be with older men. BTW I have never, never felt jealous of a woman friend who has had money spent on her by an older man, in fact the phrase 'who'd wanna be with an al' (meaning old) geezer' comes up alot in my group when we get older men trying to play out of their demographic. No matter how much money they had, I would not betray my soul for a week in spain, the bahamas, whatever. Give me a weekend in a tent with someone I want for themselves every time, absolutely no contest. I have sure as hell lost respect for women who like men for money and they certainly are not numbered amongst my friends. And as it happens the one of my friends whose partner earns alot more than her is with a man of 29, she is 34 and yes he has paid for a holiday for the two of them. However, I am envious of their genuine love, not the holiday. I hope you find happiness and wish you luck in finding that rare female who genuinely wants to be with and truely accepts a significantly older man for who he is and not for is money and or status. Or alternately, I hope you can find peace in life with a gold digger. What do you have against women your own age?, no wonder they close up if they are discarded and so de-valued by their male peers.

  • reply

It's definitely physical attraction

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 2008-08-09 21:32.

Physical attraction does not mean fiscal attraction. Physical attraction is a natural attraction between a man and a woman regardless of their age. When love is in the picture, it truly is a wonderful feeling. And if an abundance of money comes with it, then it's a bonus. Younger women who are attracted to older men tend to have both love and money. Those younger women who are living week to week (with no savings in their bank account) because their younger partners cannot afford to take them on holidays or buy them a new car tend to be jealous when they see other younger women (who are living with older men) living a life of luxury. Younger men on average cannot afford to give younger women the lifestyle they deserve.

  • reply

22 yr old woman with a 43 yr old man

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 2008-08-09 12:31.

I am in the middle of a divorce and have found myself VERY attracted to a 43yr old man. I am only 22 years old. I do not have a confidence issue or any of the other typical excuses people seem to think up why a younger female would pursue an older man... This man is there for me when my ex husband was not, he cares about my opinion and takes it into consideration, my ex husband was not ambitious where as the older man I am talking to is, he has goals, he knows what he wants in life and works everyday to reach that goal. I am by no means in this for money. I have to say that a month ago I would have never dreamed of talking to an older man but when I met him it’s like we were just made for each other.

My mother was 27 years younger than my father and yes they had their ups and downs but they were in love. My mom said to me when I told her what was going on that there is so much to an older man, they have so much more to offer and their maturity and wisdom…and respect and devotion, passion and love they have to give makes it all so much more wonderful. I know and understand everything she said because being married to a man who just turned 24 two days ago...only 2 years older than me, he was nothing like that. He was so much into what he could get out of everything. He didn’t care about my opinion, he wasn’t passionate or romantic, he was somewhat devoted but not like what I am experiencing now.

I know it isn’t something that’s always accepted in our society but I don’t care as long as I am in love and he is in love with me. If being with me is going to make him healthier in the long run. That’s all the more better for me and our children if we have them. Not to say we will even get to that point but no one knows what the future holds.
This is just my insight on the topic.

  • reply

genuine

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 2008-08-09 08:31.

hey 'Physical attraction' didn't you mean 'fiscal attraction'? sex for money is prostitution, and yes some women sell their souls and go with older men for that. And if some men are happy to be attractive only for their bank accounts (and found secretly physically repulsive by their much younger partners) then please tell them to stop complaining about gold diggers. Is the Anna Nicole Smith model your ideal in this because that is what you seem to be describing? to me she is neither the ideal role model for a woman or partner for a man. Genuine, well balanced women don't sell their sexuality (unless it is their only way out of povety, as is the case with many male order brides), or try to sell their youth to those who can't handle the loss of their own.

  • reply

wow sexist male academics -- who would have thought

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2008-08-08 02:33.

I have to agree with the "Way to go, promoting sexist stereotypes in the guise of stupid evolutionary psychology. :P" comment.

Humans have only started to live past 'menopausal age' in the very recent past in terms of evolution. Way too short a time for this to be the result of evolution. Try looking at health care and diet.

The two factors that matter are gender ratio and distribution of wealth.

  • reply

Physical attraction

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2008-08-07 22:25.

Age doesn't matter when it comes to love. If a younger woman is attracted to a man who is 15 or 20 years older than her, who's to say whether it's right or not? If the attraction is there, it's there - no one can get in the way of destiny. Plus a younger woman would obviously feel more financially secure with an older man than she would with a younger man. Older men have more power financially than younger men. I'm sure every woman dreams of a bank account where money comes in abundance. Women love to shop for themselves and for their kids. And that's why we see a lot of younger women with older men these days.

  • reply

Different strokes

Submitted by BJS on Thu, 2008-08-07 09:21.

Gang: Doesn't it seem apparent that some old men like young women, and others do not? And that some young women like older men, and others do not?

These strident comments that no young women like this, or all older men like that utterly fair the sniff test, as they draw broad generalizations across a heterogeneous population.

Am I on drugs here?

  • reply

We need to get real

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2008-08-07 08:50.

Honestly, there are many article to the contrary but I think we all need to come to rips with the truth. These articles are propaganda written by old men wanting to live out their fantasies. Young women who are intelligient will not for one second tell you they are attracted to men 30 years older but they will tell you of the harrassment they receive from men 30 years older. Let us all be honest, men will always chase younger females to feel younger without ever considering the consequences for the female. We all need to be grown ups!

  • reply

genuine

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 2008-08-03 16:01.

My previous comments were not made in response to the article, but to the comments which were being made in the thread about sexual preferences for girls who were only just in puberty - 13/14 years old. That is peadophilia, by its scientific definition (just by chance I'd been reading some very well researched scientific material on that for my own professional research today).

The article puts forward an argument about older men (aged 45 - 50 plus) reproducing with pre - menapausal women contributing to longevity, and says nothing aoout those who are still children. That's why I was so suprised by the peadophilia support group which sprung up on the thread.

I don't agree with the article, it's just a polemic and we all have the right to disagree with polemics. However, we don't have the right to break the law and cause injuries which last a life time, to children.

Has anyone read the article about chimpanzee males prefering older females on the grounds that they have more parenting experience? we are meant to be closer to chimps than any other species, just another point of view. However, I don't think we are chimpanzees, or neanderthal (if that is infact how it was for neanderthal men and women). We are cerebral, spiritual and, at our best, sensitive human beings unique in our time and evolutionary development. And we are capable of recognising that children are children.

  • reply

Older men have a lot more to offer than younger men

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 2008-08-02 05:14.

Personally, I do not think there's anything wrong with older men chasing younger women. On the contrary I think it's great. The fact that younger women are attracted to older men means that they have a lot more to offer than younger men. If a younger woman wants to settle down and have children, she will be better off with an older man. Older men tend to be more caring, understanding and reliable. Plus there is the comfort in being financially secure which is important in this modern era. Younger men, on average, like to fool around, they don't really want to get serious and some of them may not be able to give the younger women the financial support they need. We all know that security is very important to women. How would you want your child or your children to be raised? An older man can be a very good provider when it comes to the future of your chidren. Raising a child costs money and we all want the best for our children, don't we? Stay with an older man and the money will flow. Stay with a younger man and you will be in debt. Good luck with your choice!

  • reply

to 24 years woman with 50 year man

Submitted by Anonymous on Mon, 2008-07-28 20:58.

i am 23 years russian man. you cannot find man of same age? why is good old man? must be ok for 24 year man and 50 year woman? what is differnce? we like mature woman not children like in english country. sorry my english

  • reply

IN THE POST BELOW I MEANT TO

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 2008-07-27 08:59.

IN THE POST BELOW I MEANT TO SAY WOMAN GOING THROUGH MENOPAUSE, NOT MENSES, ARE STILL AT RISK OF GETTING PREGNANT. It was late at night when I posted : 1)

  • reply

older men chasing down young women = disgusting nonsense

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 2008-07-27 02:33.

I was going to post a lot of information and science to the few people who responded with cliches, venom, and nonsense to my previous post but decided that instead of debating with some misguided postees, I would just present some evidence as below.

KUDOS to the women who voice their disagreement with the bogus article above. Please stop harrassing them for speaking the truth of their feelings. Too many men ridicule women whenever those women honestly voice their opinions and feelings. You see it all over the internet. I could easily shoot down every single piece of progaganda that has been brought forth in this thread to try to sell a bill of goods to young women that they should be with old men. Complete nonsense both socially and biologically, especially in today's world.

People once believed (much like the current theory of "rotting eggs") that it was the woman that determined the gender of a child and women were severly punished for giving birth to female children in certain situations. Eventually, it was discovered that men's sperm were the biological determinants! We also know now that older men's sperm is more damaged and therefore more likely to produce female offspring because of the deterioration of the Y chromosone. Here are a few other pieces of modern research:

Older Men's Sperm Raise Risk Of Genetic Problems In Offspring
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/44641.php

Study shows that genetic quality
of sperm deteriorates as men age
https://publicaffairs.llnl.gov/news/news_releases/2006/NR-06-06-01.html

Damage To Sperm DNA Affects Older Men's Chances Of Fathering Children
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050621095150.htmhttp://www....

Male Biological Clock Also 'Ticking': Fertility Problems Greater For Men Over 35
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080706194250.htm

Age and Male Fertility: Does Age Affect Sperm Quality?
http://www.preconception.com/articles/trouble-getting-pregnant/old-sperm...

STUDY: WATCH YOUR WEIGHT - FAT MEN HAVE BAD SPERM
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=pto-4403.html&fromMod...
http://psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=pto-4403.html&fromMod...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,378581,00.html

Broken sperm a problem for 60% of men
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=603391

Disease-Causing Genetic Mutations In Sperm Increase With Men's Age
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press/2003/August/030818.htmhttp://www.ho...

By the way, we do not live in tribal or indigenous communities where an older male with more resources might have been a viable "trade" for survival purposes. Where this is still going on in the world it is considered abduction, rape, trafficking, and abuse of women. In today's world an older man with the baggage of divorce, ex-wife or wives, kids by other women, emotional baggage, all-comsuming jobs, and an older appearance and lifestyle is not an attractive prospect to most young women. He is a deficit. This is a fact.

It's great if you find love with someone with an age difference but we are NOT talking about the odd occurrence that happens based on mutual love here. We are talking about social and biological propaganda being sold to women (and men) to encourage young women to accept old men as mates. This needs to stop because it is about manipulation and power issues not biological fitness.

And people claiming that women over 40 (??) should be put out to pasture (although they are still at risk of pregnancy even when going through menses) and that men should have children in their 80s and 90s (!!) must be insane, is all I can say.

If you want to know what most young women think of older men harrassing them please read these links. It is very sad that it is typically older men (married or not) trying to take advantage of these young women. Whatever happened to respect and decency?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A26780-2004Dec1?language=printe...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4791625.stm

http://media.www.nyunews.com/media/storage/paper869/news/2006/02/01/News...

http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unyin/documents/ch09.pdf

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24061616-2682,00.html

http://www.uexpress.com/dearabby/index.html?uc_full_date=20040413

http://ourhrsite.com/SH_Cases.pdf

http://www.hreoc.gov.au/sex_discrimination/workplace/code_practice/data/...

http://www.unfpa.org/hiv/docs/women-aids.pdf

Also, men all over the world tend to have more privilege and experience in the world than the women of their OWN ages, which creates a situation where the young man is much more worldy and the young woman is much more naive and immature at the same age. Throw in an older man with the child-woman and you have a situation of power and manipulation over the younger woman. This inequality is much less likely a factor with an older woman with younger man pair bond due to the facts above.

By the way, there is also a lot of evidence that goes against the article above - but I have posted enough links here.

Remember - I am not talking about LOVE between two people of whatever ages. Taking simply an international and historical perspective (not even consdering the biological deficits) the practice of older men mating with younger women is typically tied to manipulation, power, abuse, and trade. This needs to stop.

  • reply

I am a 24 year old woman in

Submitted by Anonymous on Sat, 2008-07-26 23:32.

I am a 24 year old woman in a long-term relationship with a 50 year old man. It can also be a physical thing: I just find older men more attractive than younger men... obviously some more than others.

However, I love my older man not because he is mature, responsible, etc. because I've dated men my own age with those traits. His personality simply works with mine and we're both extremely attracted to each other.

Human beings are extremely complex and while this might explain the trend towards more older men paired with younger women, we are seeing many, many more younger men paired with older women... and this theory just doesn't explain that.

As for the fertility thing, well I have no desire for children, not now, not ever, and neither does he.

I don't see how many very special and loving relationship can simply be boiled down to spawning more babies.

  • reply

Age of consent?

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2008-07-25 11:19.

So what we really need here is some evolutionary science about the age of consent. The article you have criticized has merely demonstrated how you, yourself, may be enjoying the fruits of past encounters between previous generations of your family, which may fall under your definition of "peadophilia."

If you're concerned about the decay of the forum, why don't you ratchet it up a notch and give a scientific reply.

  1. Admit your opinion is fallible (may be factually disproved).
  2. Suggest a way to prove/disprove your opinion.
  3. Solicit contribution from people with whom you disagree instead of ending your comment with censorship: "Stop trying to justify peadophilia."
  • reply

Regardless of age...

Submitted by Anonymous on Fri, 2008-07-25 11:09.

You have chosen, it seems, a very jaded perspective.

[some women defend preference for older men saying that] these men are more mature, sensitive and understanding than young men. I completely disagree with that. If a man is truly good he will have all those qualites regardles of his age. Usually men who are that much older than their partners have the ability and experience to easily manipulate younger women in thinking that they really care about their feelings, and that they can give them better "emotional support."

Just to keep this simple, lets boil this disagreement down to two vectors: you think that age and experience [possibly sans relationship] more likely makes a man exploitative. You disagree that age and experience more likely makes a man truly mature and understanding [compassionate]?

Later you argue that it is unfair for aged women to compete with 20 year old women for these older men. You also illustrate that younger women are likely to outlive older men with whom they couple. I may despite my best efforts misunderstand your arguments, but with respect to the older man's appeal you appear to have your cake and eat it too. I would also like to point out that women of the same age as their male partners are still likely to outlive them by as much as a decade. I think to completely understand your position, I want to know about how you think we should view older women paired with 20 something men?

  • reply

Young Women Dating Old Man

Submitted by Anonymous on Thu, 2008-07-24 15:29.

I am 23 years old female. I must say that I am truly disguisted with the thought of the age difference between some of married couples mentioned on this website. It is very hard for me to understand what a woman in her twenties could find attractive in man who is 10, 20, 30 years older than her. Most women who are in such realtionships claim that the reasons why they are together with such men (beside financial security) are because these men are more mature, sensitive and understanding than young men. I completely disagree with that. If a man is truly good he will have all those qualites regardles of his age. Usually men who are that much older than their partners have the ability and experience to easily manipulate younger women in thinking that they really care about their feelings, and that they can give them better "emotional support." Trust me ladies, most man who marry women that young are the biggest players and perverts. They are happy to have long talks with you considering how much sexual pleasure they get in return. In my opinion, (no offence to those women who are already in such relationships) women who end up being with someone much older than them tend to be very insecure women in general, and they find it conforting to have a man of such age giving them constant attention. Young women need to wake up and start realizing what are they missing by being with such men. They need to remind themselves that youth is so valuable, and that life is too short to be wasted on someone who is half your age. How can imagine what all the pain and suffering you will experience down the road when those man are gone from your lives. I strongly believe that those man should be with women their age. That would resolve so many problems in our society. In addition, it is not fair that all those mature women have to compite with 20 year olds over something like this. Do you think that when you age, and when your man who is 20 years older than you dies that you could ever have a shot at being with man that's 10 years younger than you? Men do not give us the same privilage, so why should we give them? I hope that this improves by the time I age.

Pardon my English grammar as it is my second language.

  • reply

bemuzed????

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 2008-07-22 15:07.

Is this turning into a discussion forum for wannabe peadophiles? I mean, just because a girl has started her menses, that does not mean she is an adult. There is far more to sex than just the capability to produce. The bible may recomend that men do not have sex with women durng their menses, but that does not mean that all fertile females are adults.

Also the idea that rape implies violence is a distortion and misunderstanding of a very complex crime of control. It is possible to force someone into having unwanted sex with a myriad of different threats or bribes, especially naieve adolescents who see 'adults' such as yourselves as the authority.

Stop trying to justify peadophilia.

  • reply

Associated Law Conflicting with Statute

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 2008-07-22 11:26.

Under Common Law a child under 7 years of age is conclusively presumed incapable of crime. For children between 7 and 14 years of age the law deems the child incapable, but only prima facie (Latin: at first view) therefore evidence may be obtained that shows criminal capacity. “Over 14, infants (children) like all other persons are prima facie capable and he who would set up their incapacity must prove it.” ( Bishop on Criminal Law, 9th Ed. 1923).

  • reply

Unconstutional?

Submitted by Anonymous on Tue, 2008-07-22 11:08.

If this is true and 14 year olds are accountable for adult crimes then how does the statute for rape in the 2nd degree stand? Especially in cases where the juvenile has an extensive sexual history? This would obviously prove prior knowledge of the act and by soon after cooperating/consenting to it claiming illegality it would seem they participating adult could almost feel lured and entrapped especially in cases where alcohol may have been (adult only, under the influence) involved. It is also proven that chronological age is often disproportionate with mental growth as this article suggests. A child growing up in the inner city and dealing with life issues of survival and managing adult responsibilities at an early age may be more streetwise than an adult with limited social involvement. The Bible uses the context of puberty as the line for sexual intercourse. As God laid the law for Moses relative to sex he was clear to state in (Leviticus 19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.) This says a man should not approach a woman for sex during her unclean time which would set the barometer for sex at female menstruation or puberty. As there is a distinct difference between a child, someone prior to adolescence, and a juvenile, it is heinous to label someone a child predator or worse who is not attracted to children. Nor is it "just" to have hold the juvenile involved in a cooperative act harmless and the adult to be jailed and labeled as the lowest form of life in our society. Rape infers violence so to even charge someone with rape in a cooperative act with someone old enough to be charged as an adult with prior knowledge of the act is Cruel and Unusual Punishment. Especially when this crime under the current statute requires registration and a host of other severe penalties. Some penalties can separate a parent from their own children, grandchildren and family members indefinitely and prevent them from even being around males though the crime has nothing to do with male children/juveniles.

These laws should be carefully reviewed as they are clearly in need of modification or removal. They harm not just the offender, the often harm the cooperating individual and any other children who in many cases are innocent bystanders.

  • reply

older women

Submitted by Anonymous on Sun, 2008-07-20 06:39.

Older women fancy younger men too, in a physcal sense, so when aren't they having a study about that in relation to evolution?

Also, in our times aren't we always being told that real love has nothing to do with looks? or exterior factors? so why would age matter? Thankfully, I had a nose for shallow older men who were just ineterested in youth for its own sake when I was younger and never got involved with one. And I won't be doing it now either. The young women who deliberately prusue older men are just like the young men who deliberately pursue older women, they are looking to be looked after financially or otherwise because they don't want to deal with being independent. They love the older man's wallet,and gratitude no doubt, not him.

I won't be playing that game.

  • reply
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